I originally posted this in the welcome forum but have been advised it would be more appropriate here.

I look forward to any advice you can give me.

Thanks.

Hi Everyone

I'm finding this site really useful and have already contacted all my creditors (I had a traumatising experience of setting up and shortly afterwards folding a small business in 2000/1) under the CCA to see if I can avoid spending the rest of my life paying off these debts. Most of them have been sold on through several DCAs at this point.

I wonder if anyone can help me with this particular issue though.

What I am unclear about (amongst many other things) is that I have one debt with NatWest which we originally believed was the liability of the business. NatWest were informed that the business had been folded (it was a limited company but with reference to the previously mentioned debts, I took on a lot of personal borrowing to keep the thing going).

NatWest did nothing for three years and when I and my partner recieved the initial letter from them in 2004, I assumed they must be correct and I was liable and I contacted them with a payment plan. However my business partner asserted that the debt was not our personal liability. I therefore wrote and withdrew my offer. Eventually my partner accepted liability and has been paying a limited sum, monthly, since 2004. I have never made any payments and my only contact has been to refute liability other than my initial payment offer in 2004, which I subsequently withdrew.

I am contacted periodically by DCAs but write denying liability and so far have not been pursued any further.

Is it possible to consider this debt (for which I understand there is joint liablility) statute barred as far as I am personally concerned as I have never made any payments or will I remain liable for the life of the debt as my partner is making payments?

Do I have to wait until 6 years from 2004 when I made my erroneous offer?

Is my response to the DCAs denying liability considered to be 'contact' under section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980 and I therefore have to wait until six years has passed since the last of these?

I'd appreciate any advice you can give me.

It will be six years from the date of accrual of the cause of action. This would be the point when action could have first been brought against you. This was confirmed by Reeves v Butcher [1891].

You will need to check WHO is personally liable for the debt? Is it in the business name? Any personal guarantees?

If you are jointly & several liable for the debt so long as payments are being made the 6 years would be reset for you everytime that payment is made.

Thanks sequenci - the loan was in the business name but Nat West say that we signed personal guarentees.

It was a joint loan so (from what you're saying) the fact that my business partner is making payments means that I can't claim it is statute barred even though I have never made a payment.

Is there any way of avoiding it because of the three year time lag before they took any action?

If it turns out that debt was a liability of the business and you did not act as guarantor then there is nothing they can do to enforce it.

If, however, it turns out that you are liable for the debt then I'm afraid the date you have to consider is that date that you or your business partner last made a payment to the account.

The Limitations Act 1980 only applies when no contact has been made between the creditor and debtor within the given time limit. The time limit begins when you last admitted owing the money or made a payment.

Edited - Just read your reply re. guaranteeing the loan, so it looks like you will be liable and you would still have to wait a full six years for it to become time barred. Sorry...

Thanks sequenci - the loan was in the business name but Nat West say that we signed personal guarentees.

 

The obviouse questrion is do you have a copy of the original agreement confrimng the terms of what you signed?

If not send them a CCA request to make sure you know what the terms were then people can advise accordingly.

JMHO

Glenn

Thanks Glenn UK.

I don't have a copy of the original agreement - Buchanan, Clark and Wells were the last contact that I had from a DCA in relation to this debt and they sent me a letter back saying they had closed the file and referring me to Credit Management Services, Telford but failed to supply me with their address. Incidentally they also failed to return my £1 postal order!

Should I now go ahead and contact Credit Management Services (whoever they are) even though I have never heard from them or should I go back to NatWest as the original creditor?

ignore me just subscribing

Should I now go ahead and contact Credit Management Services

Nat west in house debt manaement services.

Ask for copies of the persoanl guarantees as proog that this debt should be paid by you or your partner personally.

Have you an yrecollection of siging a guarantee?

I certainly remember signing forms and I'm presuming that as my ex- business partner is making payments that she has accepted that she/we is/are liable. However, I've been in touch with her and advised her to register here and get some advice.

Incidentally do you have an address for Credit Management Services as I it appears I need to contact them.

If I contact them does this start the six years running as so far, as I've said, I have never made any payments.

certainly remember signing forms and I'm presuming that as my ex- business partner is making payments that she has accepted that she/we is/are liable. However, I've been in touch with her and advised her to register here and get some advice.

Well if you signed a personal guarantedd then you are jointly liable.

Incidentally do you have an address for Credit Management Services as I it appears I need to contact them.

 

No but I beleive they are in Telford - call your local branch they may be able to help.

If I contact them does this start the six years running as so far, as I've said, I have never made any payments

Makes no difference your partner has been paying a joint debt therfore the six years starts from the last payment and then the next and so on.

You are joint and severally liable.

The critical issue is to find out what you signed.

the bank wont tell you if you are not olbiged to pay the debt, they will continue to collect and chase both parties.

Send them the CCA request today!

JMHO

Glenn

Thanks Gizmo111 and Glenn UK,

Will send off the CCA request immediately. I'll let you know the response.

does a cca request cover a personal guarantee?

i think it covers agreements made under the CCA, it may be that this agreement being related to a business wasn't covered.

However, the basis of the agreement seems to rely on the OP and his partners personal liability.

if the bank are to enforce the agreement then the OP needs to have sight of the T&C to enable him her to assert their rights.

It might also be worth simply asking for a copy of the original agreement as well.

ultimately if the lender refuse to supply the agreement then the debtor could refuse to pay and force court action, whereupon they will have to supply the agreement as evidence of their rights.

This of course is not a route i would suggest because there are obvious risks involved.

However, one cannot enforce a contract without evidence that the contract exists and what the terms were.

Glenn