Parked in a local authority car park pay and display. Paid the money and placed the ticket on my dashboard.

When I went back to my car I have a ticket stating that I had "parked in a car park without clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket".

The regulations on site state that your ticket should be displayed cleary (no mention of windscreen).

However, the actual ticket says that the parking ticket from the machine should be fixed to the windscreen.

I have written to the local authority objecting.

Do I have a case?

Not really but you may have a case to answer if there are PCN problems post a pic of both sides so all the folk on here who are good at spotting PCN problems can have a look and give you some advice.

Barry

Does the ticket actually have a sticky side for you to attach it with? Some don't and it's a new thing cropping up on here; several others have threads that are yet to be resolved. One thing to try would be to photocopy the ticket that you bought and send it along to the Council as proof that you bought one. Have they mentioned photographic evidence at all?

Only happened a few days ago and I wrote my letter Friday.

I would have thought that the regulations where that its had to be displayed "clearly". Whilst it was not displayed on the windscreen it was clearly visable. There is no mention of windscreen display on the notice board at the carv park

Only the ticket said it had to be fixed to the windscreen by using the sticker.

I dont see how the regulations can be changed by the sticker.

Thanks for the replies. I dont have a scanner but will try later with a friends.

PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE (PCN)

Issued under the ROAD TRAFFIC ACT 1991 (as amended)

NOTICE No: Date of this Notice

RB25xxxxxx 11/01/07

The Motor Vehicle with registeraton No: EN06xxx

Excise Lisence No: xxxxxxxxxx

MAKE: VOLKSWAGEN COLOUR: BLACK

was seen Cranbrook Road (car park 4)

at LOCATION OutsideCP4

FROM 16:24 to/at 16:26

on: 11/01/7

By Parking attendant (number) xxx

signature (is signed)

who had reasonable cause to believe that the following parking contraventon had occured:

PARKED IN A CAR PARK WITHOUT CLEARLY DISPLAYING A VALID PAY & DISPLAY TICKET/PARKING TICKET

Contravention Code 83

The penalty charge of £80.00 must be paid before the end of 28 days begining with the date of this notice.

If the charge is paid before the end of the 14 days begining with the date of this Notice the amount payable will be reduced by one half to £40.00

Please see overleaf for details of how to pay and what to do if you think that this PCN should not have been issued.

DO NOT PAY THE PARKING ATTENDANT.

There is no DATE OF CONTRAVENTION it is invalid see this>

Justice Jackson, High Court August 2nd 2006

In particular, the judge held that if a PCN did not have the date of issue (or date of notice) as well as the date of contravention explicitly shown then the PCN becomes a nullity.

READ this http://www.logiclaw.co.uk/Acts/Barnet.htm

Baz

PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE (PCN)

Issued under the ROAD TRAFFIC ACT 1991 (as amended)

 

NOTICE NO Date of this Notice

RB25xxxxxx 11/01/07

 

The Motor Vehicle with registeraton No: EN06xxx

 

MExcise Lisence No: xxxxxxxxxx

MAKE: VOLKSWAGEN COLOUR: BLACK

was seen Cranbrook Road (car park 4)

at LOCATION OutsideCP4

 

FROM 16:24 to/at 16:26

on: 11/01/7

By Parking attendant (number) xxx

signature (is signed)

 

 

who had reasonable cause to believe that the following parking contraventon had occured:

 

PARKED IN A CAR PARK WITHOUT CLEARLY DISPLAYING A VALID PAY & DISPLAY TICKET/PARKING TICKET

 

Contravention Code 83

 

The penalty charge of £80.00 must be paid before the end of 28 days begining with the date of this notice.

 

If the charge is aid before the end of the 14 days begining with the date of this Notice the amount payable will be reduced by one half to £40.00

 

Please see overleaf for details of how to pay and what to do if you think that this PCN should not have been issued.

 

DO NOT PAY THE PARKING ATTENDANT.

Oh yes it has! It may not specifically call it that, but I beleive that the above will suffice in law.

However, a PCN must state that if the penalty is not paid within 28 days then Notoce to Owner will be sent. As per section 3 of the RTA1991 below

(3) A penalty charge notice must state—

• (a) the grounds on which the parking attendant believes that a penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;

• (b) the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;

• © that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

• (d) that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;

• (e) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, a notice to owner may be served by the London authority on the person appearing to them to be the owner of the vehicle;

• (f) the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be sent.

The "as amended" bit to the headed is to allow DPE in other than London.

Was this on your ticket amd you have not transcribed it, or is it missing altogether? You should note that for the putposes of complying with the reequirements above, the tear-off slip does not form part of the PCN

Thanks for the responses.

If you look above it says:-

"The penalty charge of £80.00 must be paid before the end of 28 days begining with the date of this notice.

If the charge is paid before the end of the 14 days begining with the date of this Notice the amount payable will be reduced by one half to £40.00

Please see overleaf for details of how to pay and what to do if you think that this PCN should not have been issued."

This is on the front of the PCN....So i guess this is ok

PCN clearly gives "Date of this Notice" (11/01/07) and gives two times for the contravention 16:24 to 16:26 on 11/01/07

However, my main objection is that I feel that the ticket was clearly displayed. It was on the dash board and clearly visable. The regulations at the car park do not say the ticket has to be displayed on the windscreen of the car.

In my view this case is about was the ticket clearly visable or not?

Howard

But there is nothing in what you have typed about what happens if it isn't paid within 28 days and this is a legal requirement.

Parked in a local authority car park pay and display. Paid the money and placed the ticket on my dashboard.

 

When I went back to my car I have a ticket stating that I had "parked in a car park without clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket".

 

The regulations on site state that your ticket should be displayed cleary (no mention of windscreen).

 

However, the actual ticket says that the parking ticket from the machine should be fixed to the windscreen.

 

I have written to the local authority objecting.

 

Do I have a case?

IANAL, but I believe that as a matter of contract law, the terms of a contract cannot be varied after the sale. So what's printed on the ticket is irrelevant, as you don't get to see that till *after* buying the ticket.

I think you have a case. The magistrates will have to decide what "clearly displayed" mean, and whether the ticket was "clearly displayed". It's their opinion that counts, not the local authority's.

Obviously there can be no obligation to put the ticket on the windscreen, because there is no requirement for a vehicle to *have* a windscreen!

If you show the magistrates you have the ticket, and state it was in clear view on the dashboard, I should think the magistrates will decide it was indeed "clearly displayed". (If you park near the court, you can invite the magistrates to go and see for themselves.)

Tim

The back of the ticket gives details of what happens If I do not pay befor the "end of the 28 days".

I am no expert but I feel that the ticket is validly served . My gripe is on what clearly dispayed means. I am awaiting a decision from Redbridge. I will take this all the way to the adjudicator if I have to.

Tim, you make a good point. What if it would have been a motor bike?

IANAL, but I believe that as a matter of contract law, the terms of a contract cannot be varied after the sale. So what's printed on the ticket is irrelevant, as you don't get to see that till *after* buying the ticket.

The is the RTA1991 - nothing whatsoever to do with contract law - it is decriminalised parking; a matter of statute, not contract.

I think you have a case. The magistrates will have to decide what "clearly displayed" mean, and whether the ticket was "clearly displayed". It's their opinion that counts, not the local authority's.

 

Obviously there can be no obligation to put the ticket on the windscreen, because there is no requirement for a vehicle to *have* a windscreen!

 

If you show the magistrates you have the ticket, and state it was in clear view on the dashboard, I should think the magistrates will decide it was indeed "clearly displayed". (If you park near the court, you can invite the magistrates to go and see for themselves.)

 

Tim

The only Court that would be involved is the Northampton County Court Bulk Processing Centre.

The only way to fight this is to appeal to the adjudicator (PATAS or NPAS depending on where this happened) on the grounds that the contravention did not occur.

Pat

Agree with your comments.

Is there any case law on "clearly displayed"?

Does the ticket have to be on the windscreen? Is on dashboard clearly visable acceptable?

From Appeal Now

Commiserations to Eli Ellwood and the Reverend James Alexander who were given a parking ticket for putting the Pay and Display ticket on their dashboard rather than on the windscreen. Paul Necus, Head of Parking at Cambridge City Council, said there was no rule that required parking tickets to be stuck on a vehicle's windscreen.

The is the RTA1991 - nothing whatsoever to do with contract law - it is decriminalised parking; a matter of statute, not contract.

Oh, I thought the OP said the incident was in a car park, not on the road.

I thought decriminalised parking applied only to parking offences under the RTA, not parking in car parks - which was never a criminal offence in the first place.

Tim

Oh, I thought the OP said the incident was in a car park, not on the road.

 

I thought decriminalised parking applied only to parking offences under the RTA, not parking in car parks - which was never a criminal offence in the first place.

 

Tim

However, the PCN reproduced in post #5 clearly states that the PCN is issued under the RTA1991.

Previously, Councils issued ECN (Excess Charge Notice) for off highway parking contraventions. This was under the 1984 Act.

On road offences were a police or TW matter and were dealt with via FPN (and Magistrates' Court if disputed).

The RTA 1991 brought these together under DPE - there is no 'offence', only a contravention.

I don't know if this is of any use, but a couple of weeks ago I returned to my car to see a traffic warden or whatever they're called (council) about to write/print out a ticket. I asked him "why" since my time had not expired (on-street parking meter, the version that gives you a ticket to display) and he said it was not "clearly displayed" because, like yours OP, it was on the dashboard.

I pointed out that the car next to mine had a disabled badge and he had walked past that one (I knew this because a car I had walked past on my way back had a ticket on it so he had almost certainly walked past and checked the "disabled" car before he got to mine.

The disabled badge was also on the dashboard, he said that was OK so I then pointed out that there was nothing on my ticket to say it had to be placed on the windscreen and said if he issued the ticket I would appeal on the basis that it was allowed for the car with the disabled badge but not acceptable for my paid-for ticket. He said "Fair enough", and walked away without issuing a ticket.

The whole thing is a bloody farce though. If you sent in the ticket which showed that even if you ticket had been stuck on the window and fallen off (it's happened to me and no doubt thousands of others), as long as you have paid your dues that is all that matters in the greater scheme of things?

This "failing to display" thing is just the sharp end of the money-making cash cow. Personally I don't believe we should, as motorists, shoppers or whatever have to to pay to park on the roads that we have already paid to drive on etc. anyway. Where's the victim to justify the "fine"?

Thanks for that. I am still awaiting a response. I sent a SAE. My guess is that they will reject and then send a Notice to Owner.

A few months ago my daughter came home with a ticket. She said she had parked correctly. I went to the location and discovered that there was a ban from parking on the yellow line from 1.00pm to 2.00pm. My daughter was parked at 2.45pm and it was even the other side of the marker where you can park all day. I wrote a letter and still got a rejection. I filed an Appeal (with photos) and this was accepted.

Howard - Take a close look at the PCN. Excel Car Parking demanded £40 for a ticket which was not clearly displayed but unfortunately the attendant filled in my car parking ticket number on the form. So read the PCN letter by letter to find any mistakes.

I e-mailed them asking them about this attendants superior powers of discerning what was on the ticket without seeing it and added that I would be happy to see them in court.. but that they should expect to pay my costs.

I've heard no more but apparently they can chase you for up to two years after the event.

General advice: Photocopy everything. E-mail all paper evidence to yourself as a record.

REALLY IMPORTANT: Pay for any communication to these car parking companies - letter, cheque etc as a Signed For Delivery. Apparently another wheeze is to say that the payment cheque has not been received and that you will incur yet another fine.

Good luck!

I am surprised!!! Expected to have to goto the adjudicator.

Had a letter from Redbridge this morning.

They say "query has now been investigated and as a result it is considered that on this occasion there are sufficient grounds for the above notice and penalty charge to be cancelled. No further action will be taken. Any future tickets issued under similar circumstances will remain valid".

Photo with letter. Car is very dark. You cant see the Reg Number but you can see (just about) the parking ticket displayed at the point where the dashboard touches the windscreen (you cant even read the wording).

The ticket was on the dashboard but from the photo you cant really tell.

Thanks for all the replies. This is a great site!

Howard - clearly you should write to Redbridge asking them why they are harrassing innocent motorists by sending out demands for money without proper evidence.

Or perhaps not. Just be quietly triumphant.

Top tip: Never cross parking wardens, the police, tax officers or journalists - they always have the last word ...and they've all got long memories.