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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 160 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Jonathan B V Nationwide - Underpaid


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On the 24th Nov I claimed £1,263.18 from Nationwide using the Moneyclaim online service. On 29th November I received a total of £1,088.33.

 

I then received a letter from the courts entitled "Notice of Defence that Amount Claimed Has Been Paid" stating in section 1 that they "dispute the amount claimed as shown on the claim form" and in section 2, that they dispute the claim because they had already paid it. In section 2 it states that they "paid £1,088.33 on 29th Nov 06 (before the claim form was issued)".

 

In the "details" section they have written the following:

"Charges totalling £840.60 were refunded to the Claimant's account number XXXX/xxxxxxxxxx on 29th Nov 2006. The further sum of £120 in respect of the court fee of £120 and interest of £127.73 was also credited to Claimant's account on 29th Nov 06".

 

So I have 2 questions really,

 

Do I dispute it and proceed to try and get the remaining £174.85 refunded. In other words, is it worth the hassle?

 

Secondly, it states that they refunded the amount before my claim, however my claim was made on the 24th November and they refunded on the 29th which is obviously after my original claim. In other words, does this error make it more likely that I will receive the full amount?

 

I'm worried as the remaining amount isn't really that amount and I only have until the 6th January to complete my reply.

 

The options on the form are as follows:-

 

1) I wish to proceed with the claim

2) I do not wish to proceed with the claim

3) I have sent a copy of this completed form to the defendant

 

Eek! Dont know what to do! Any advice greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Jonathan

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Hi laxdale!

Only U can decide if U want to let Nationwide keep £174.85 of YOUR money!

If all your calculations are correct why are U worrying???

Nationwide clearly haven't settled your Claim IN FULL.

Why would U want to not proceed?

They are just trying to pull a fast one to test your mettle.

If U go ahead with your claim they will lose and U will get ALL your money eventually.

Just follow all the well documented proceedures that other successful Claimants have followed!

Hope this re-assures U?!

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Brilliant. Just what I needed to hear, needed a 2nd opinion really, £174 is still £174, specially, as you say, WHEN IT IS MINE!!! I'll send off the paperwork on the 2nd and keep you posted. Thanks again !!

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Yes go for it - in my experience this is the usuall fiar for nationwide - Im surprised though as they usually cough up full amount so they may have just made a calculating mistake thats all.

 

try phoning them directy to see what they say!!

 

I found nationwide pretty helpful in past to be honest!!!

Allyxia

KEEP FIGHTING FOR YOUR MONEY - EVEN WHEN IT GETS TOUGH

The Banks are somewhere which lends you an umberella when it is sunny, and takes it away when it rains

 

HSBC £1200 - Settled in Full

Cap 1 2 X £100 - Settled in Full

Nationwide £1641 - Settled in Full inc Default and CCJ Removed by Court Order

NatWest £2215.60- Settled in Full and Removed Default Natice

Woolwich £3690 - Settled in Full

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OK - here is the reply to the banks defence that they paid the claim before I issued my claim online, and that they have settled in full. Please dont tell me I have made some huge error as I need to post this first thing tomorrow morning for it to get to the court before the 6th - I will let you know how I get on, thanks for your help again. Cheers and happy new year to all of you!

 

Dear Sir,

 

Further to receipt of Form N9B in which the defendant states that they have paid £1,083.33 to the claim on 29th November 2006 (before the claim form was issued). I hereby provide evidence (copy of bank statement, account now closed by Nationwide) that proves that the payment was made after the original claim of 24th November 2006 and not before the claim form was issued, as the defendant has entered on claim form N9B.

 

Secondly, I enclose a full list of all charges that were applied to my account from 24th November 2000 that were not reversed including the full amount and date of each charge. I therefore believe that I am still due a further £174.85 as my total original claim including interest was for £1,263.18 and not the £1,083.33 that I received on 29th November 2006.

 

It is for the reasons listed above that I wish to proceed with the claim.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi again,

Today I've received a Notice of Transfer of Proceedings and an Allocation Questionnaire (N149) but not sure what I should do next. Do I ask for a one-month "stay" and contact Mr Bacon to get the remainder paid or what other options are available ?

 

It all looks very heavy and I'm not sure if I should proceed or not because the remaining amount is only £170 odd pound.

 

Any thoughts or advise greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Jonathan

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Hi laxdale!

Why would YOU want to ask for a "stay" to delay proceedings to give Nationwide more time to pay U in FULL what they owe U???

As the defendant, it is up to them to prove to the Court that they have indeed paid U ALL that U claimed!!!

Ask yourself how they could possibly substantiate this if they have paid U £170 odd short??!

They have NO defence!!!

There is NO need to contact Nationwide and allow them to get U in a tizzy.

U simply keep to your original Claim figures and proceed with your Claim by stating, if necessary, that Nationwide has still NOT paid your Claim in FULL!

Hope this re-assures U?!

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Guest xipetotec46
Brilliant. Just what I needed to hear, needed a 2nd opinion really, £174 is still £174, specially, as you say, WHEN IT IS MINE!!! I'll send off the paperwork on the 2nd and keep you posted. Thanks again !!

 

 

I am claiming only £60 it's not the money it's the principle and if it costs me more than the £60 to claim it back then so be it, we should all do something about RIP off Britain and not even think about Towel Throwing.

Barry

PS If you need advice get in touch.

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Guest xipetotec46

Yes Gilly quite right I dont mean in court costs, I mean in time and expenses, I don't pay anyway I am on benefits.

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Thanks everyone, just one thing though, with regards filling in the form, I've had a look on here and the guides to filling in this form all assume you havent received any money and this isnt the case with me. Any ideas on how best to approach it. Should I send copies of the charges again?

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OK, I've done an email and letter to Mr Bacon using various other people's replies etc, text below:-

 

Further to your defence dated 4th December 07 and my subsequent letter of reply dated 2nd January 07 in which I state that the settlement received of £1,083.33 on 29th November 06 is £174.85 less than my total original claim of £1,263.18 - I wish to respectfully inform you that I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder, with a County Court claim if necessary.

 

In addition, please can you provide me with a complete list of charges with dates and amounts of each charge refunded so far so that I may check them against my own figures to identify where the difference is? I do intend to continue with my court case against Nationwide but would obviously rather resolve this issue sooner if possible – as I’m sure you would to.

 

Going to fill out the AQ using the standard template as well.

 

Here we go again !!!

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  • 3 months later...

Just to keep you updated... apparently the judge has made a decision but there is backlog in getting the things typed up. I know it was only another £170.00 or so but it was the principle and I am looking forward to knowing I got my money back in full.

 

Currently battling with Abbey who are making folks do a lot more work but hopefully and end will be in sight soon.

 

To all the kind folks that helped me with this earlier, thanks so much. Forums are the future, power to the people!!

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Guest xipetotec46

If you think Nationwide and Abbey are bad, you want to try claiming from Natwest and them other Rogues LLoyds TSB first started in Jan just gone into court last week with POC

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EEK!!! Just had a letter back from Central London County Court that reads:-

 

"Before District Judge Hasan sitting at Central London County Court, Civil Justice Centre, 13-14 Park Crescent, London, W1N 1HT.

 

Upon reading the court file and allocation questionnaires filed by the parties

And

Upon the Court's own initiative

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1) The case be transferred to the Mercantile Court at the Royal Court of Justice for the attention of his His honour Judge Mackie CBE QC

 

2) Take notice that this order having been made without notice, any party affected by it has the right to apply within 7 days after the service of the order to vary or set aside the order

 

Dated 18th April.

_________________

 

The letter is dated 30th April.

 

Now I am very worried that I've done my calculations wrong and that I shouldn't have been so stubborn chasing that last £175.00 of my claim. Guess I will have to go through my statements again tonight but I'm sure I checked it and checked it at least 4 times.

 

The other thing is I haven't heard about anyone being transferred to the Royal Court of Justice before. Please tell me I am not going to be "THE ONE"?

 

Does anyone have any experience of this happening at this stage, bearing in mind I have had the vast majority of my money back but was revved up enough to pursue for what I saw to be the remainder and am now worried I might end up paying it all back and more in court costs. Scary.

 

Is there anything I should be doing? I havent got a court date or anything but the CBE QC bit is enough to terrify me right now.

 

All info greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Jonathan B

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update - Latest Letter

 

Your case has been transferred to London Mercantile Court, which is based within the Admiralty and Commercial Court at the Royal Courts of Justice, Strand, London, WC2A 2LL. Please see for guidance, CPR59 and Practice Direction.

 

Your case has been allocated the number ****-*** this number to be used in future correspondence.

 

There will be a Small Claims Hearing in this case and in several others which raise the same or similar issue at 9.30 on 20th July 2007 in court 1, St Dunstan's House, 133-137 Fetter Lane, London, EC4A 1HD. The hearing is intended to give directions for the hearing of some or all of these cases in way which saves and time and expense. It is hoped that all parties will attend but if this is not practicable the Court will be pleased to consider the written views of any party provided that these reach the Court by no later than 17th July 07.

 

Although some of these cases have been allocated to the Multi Track, it is the provisional view of the Judge that the costs rules for the Small Claims Track should apply to all of them.

 

Yours....

 

______________________

 

EEK again !!

 

Having not been on here for a while, (as I've been waiting ages for this letter), I've kind've lost track on what I should do next. What stage am I at now? Does the Lloyds TSB thing mean any of the processes have changed. I realise the case doesnt mean much but thought the way we respond might have. Also, not sure about the CMIS and draft directions thing now either

 

:-|

 

All advice gratefully received.

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Hi again laxdale!

 

'Fraid I can't give U any meaningful advice Re: Mercantile Court as I don't have any personal experience of it.

 

I CAN give U plenty of encouragement though and tell U that there are loads of people routing for U.

I'm sure that U'll be fine and cope with the experience.

In some ways it's good that U aren't walking into Court alone.

At least U will have others to brainstorm with.

 

Remember to post regular and let us all know how U're getting on.

(...I do realise that U may have to keep some things close to your chest, so as NOT to prejudice your Claim though!)

 

U never know, someone may come up with something useful that U and your Co-Claimants may not thought or be aware of, that may help U in some way.

I've every confidence that they will.

 

Best of luck!...But U won't need that WILL U??!!...;):)

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Milktrayman is the best!!

 

Just to keep you in the loop. T

 

ried ringing Nationwide today to say I'd got a court date and to see if they were prepared to settle for the £175 they still owe me plus £200 compensation for closing my bank account.

 

Told them I'd got a court date, she really pushed me for the date, and when I eventually relented and said 20th July she pretty much closed down and said, we wont be in touch until the court hearing. I said that was fine as I would be able to claim both the £200 compensation via the ombudsman now, plus whatever it is you get for the bundle preparation time. I think the long-way-off-ness of the court date meant she could just leave it. They also said that according to their records my case had been closed. I happily pointed out that as I had been given a hearing date in the Mercantile court, it was fairly obvious that the courts disagreed.

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  • 2 weeks later...

keep on going mate. Ive not heard of anyone getting this far but you sound as if you have all bases covered.

IF Im available 20th July I may come down to lend support (london based anyway).

Chin up.

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