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JP Morgan/Rooftop Arrears fees- The saga continues.


jotty
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So same thing, are they suggesting that I ask Mortgage Claims for a copy of the SAR rather than Rooftop supplying it. The more I read the response the more I feel it’s a muddled fob off but they must feel they can get away with this.

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They still cant charge anything. A SAR is free no matter if you request it a dozen times. And what costs? If they complied with the other SAR, as they said they had, theyd have all info on hand. So should just copy it.

 

I'm sorry but this is not correct. There are circumstances in which they data controller can require a reasonable fee and a repeated request is one of those circumstances.

 

If the claims company really has made a valid SAR then £2.20 for what amounts to a repeated request is not unreasonable. What is more interesting here is that they seem to be shifting the goalposts.

 

It is entirely possible that there is no breach here because if the original request was a valid DSAR then they have certainly offered to provide a copy or even a fresh SAR for the payment of £2.20.

 

I'm not too clear whether the £2.20 was actually paid or offered and they then went on to refuse on second grounds. If that is the case then maybe we have a breach.

 

Where they certainly have breached – but it is pretty technical – is that where they make any kind of refusal then they have to outline various things including the reason but also they must identify the section of the act under which the refusal is made and also explained to you your rights to complain to the ICO. This is pretty rarefied stuff and frankly I wouldn't bother to sue on it.

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Well I don't understand their response of the 19th because on one hand they want a payment of £2.20 because it is a repeat of a DSAR made on your authority by the claims management company – and then in the same letter they say that they can't supplied to you because they are unable to verify your authority.

 

I really don't understand what they are doing – and I still think that you should send an SAR to the claims management company.

 

What date did you supply them with the £2.20 payment?

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In the absence of a copy of the request made by your claims company:

 

Dear Sir/Mdm

 

I refer to your letter of 19 December in which you informed me that you will comply with my statutory disclosure if I provide you with a payment of £2.20. This payment has now been provided to you on the XXX date. Despite this I have received no disclosure from you.

 

I also refer to your statement that you cannot let me have the statutory disclosure because you are unable to verify my authority.

 

In the same letter you tell me that however, if I want to make a new subject access request, then the above fee will apply.

 

Of course I understand that you are entitled under the data protection legislation to require that I provide sufficient information few to verify my identity. However in this case there should be no doubt as to my identity because the name I am using, the signature that I am using, the address to which I am asking you to send the statutory disclosure are exactly those to which you have been content to send statements, demands and threats on several occasions.

 

For this reason it is clear that your claim that you are unable to verify my authority is spurious and calculated merely to obstruct the exercise of my rights under the data protection act.

 

I'm writing to inform you that as my subject access request was received by you on the XXX date, you have now exceeded the statutory 30 day time limit and so you are in breach of your statutory duty. I'm proposing to sue you in the County Court for breach of statutory duty and I'm not sure that there is much you can do to prevent this.

 

I still require that you make the statutory disclosure and I'm giving you an opportunity to reduce the seriousness of your statutory breach by providing you with 14 days notice of my intention to begin a County Court claim against you so that if you do provide me with the disclosure, at the very least you will be able to tell the court that you did eventually comply with your statutory duty. Of course I will inform the court that your compliance was only obtained as a result of a threat of legal action by myself.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Does that work?

 

This assumes that you are prepared to bring a legal action whether or not they make the disclosure. If you would rather not take this step then please let us know and we will amend the letter

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Thanks BF, and I appreciate your time on this.

 

Yes I have no fear of court having gone through the Bank Charges fiasco years ago. I don't think they have very good people at Rooftop after all it is basically the "naughty boy step" of JP Morgans mortgage business which is more concerned about clawing money back by whatever means.

 

I will copy and edit your letter and fire it off to them. As soon as I get a response I will update.

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… Or if you don't get any reply at all – day 15 you issue the papers. You had better let us know by about day 12 if you have heard anything

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  • 3 weeks later...

So after having a think and then deciding to send them the letter n the 27th, they have not acknowledged it but are now still refusing as the signatures on our DSAR don’t match their records. Bit strange this as e don’t recall ever signing anything with Rooftop and they bought the loan from JP Morgan. They want us to send proof signed by a solicitor or JP !!.

 

I could send them copies of passports etc but am not to keen. Any advice please.

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you know they are just time wasting and the new GDPR basically removes this burden of proof and supposedly they have to show why they dotn belive it is you. they stand to lose by sending out the info so of course they will try their luck.

A complaint to the ICO will be worthwhile but slow in getting results

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You have already pointed out that you have been receiving various demands and threats as well as statements – all of which contained sensitive personal data. Furthermore I understand that you have been receiving visits to your address.

 

On this basis it's very clear that they don't need this identity verification. Although they are permitted under the Data Protection Act to take steps to verify data, this is only when it is necessary to do so.

 

That doesn't seem to be the case here.

 

I understand that you have sent them two SARs and they are in breach of both them.

 

Can you just clarify what is this third letter which you have just sent them on the 27th?

 

Do I also gather that they ask you to pay £2.20 – and you have paid it?

 

 

How did you pay?

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Thank you. So how did you pay that £2.20 fee?

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When you say cash – do you mean coins?

 

Have you banked the cheque?

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Okay, well I suggest that you complain to the information Commissioner. You should try to this on the telephone but in any event right in with your complaint and try to get a reference number. The information Commissioner is overrun with complaints the moment and whereas it used to be able to get a preliminary decision within about six weeks, it now seems as it might take as long as three months simply to get your reference number – but you better get started.

 

So you will complain that you have sent to SARs using your identity your contact details et cetera which rooftop are happy to use to send threats, demands, visits – personal data generally – and even a cheque for £2.20 made out in your name and sent to your address – and yet they are prepared to disclose your data.

 

Furthermore, they asked initially for a payment – which you gave them and once the payment was given they then change the reason for declining and said that it was a question of identity verification. Once again, they are happy to use your contact details for authors other reasons but not for data disclosure and you consider that this is a breach of the data protection act.

 

 

 

Now we have to decide if you are prepared to take legal action. Once again I rather lost the flow of the story. Have you send them a letter before action? Did you give them 14 days or else you will sue in the County Court?

If you did send them the letter before action then are you prepared to proceed. If you did not send them the letter before action then if you are prepared to proceed then you should send them a letter before action.

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I sent them the lba you prepared in post #27 above, on the 28th. As stated earlier I am prepared for court as I cannot understand why they are refusing unless of course they have something they don’t want me to see which makes it even more interesting. It could be that they haven’t the staff to do the work and hope anyone asking will go away and forget, but either way to hide behind what they class as their policies on data protection as a reason seems a bit lame.

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Okay, well I suppose that they are unlikely to respond to your LBA so you had better start preparing. Register with money claim online and start understanding how it works. You can also stop preparing your particulars of claim. However don't send anything off or click anything off without checking here for the draft.

 

Also, you can refresh your memory by reading around on this forum about how to bring a small claim in the County Court.

 

You will be claim for breach of the data protection act and that they failed to disclose your data within the statutory period of 30 days.

 

I don't think it's worth mentioning their ID verification request at this point. The thing to do is to keep your particular is a claim to an absolute minimum so as to establish a cause of action but without giving too much detail.

 

No doubt they will refer to the ID verification in the defence and then you can make a reply or simply go for the hearing.

 

I will try to monitor this and support you as far as I can – although I have to warn you that I'm extremely busy trying to organise a major upgrade of this website and it's taking more time than I would like.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Okay, I have slowly lost the track but it must be about the expiry date of your LBJ – yes? Are you ready to issue a legal action?

 

Don't forget that if you do issue the action, you could lose in which case you will have to do suffer the loss of your claim fee – and even possibly a hearing fee. There is very little risk indeed that you could lose anything else.

 

Your chances of success on what you have told us are better than 90%

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Yes ready for legal action, I will let the complaint to the IOC take its course anyway.

 

Having used MCOL before is it still good advice not to go in huge detail on the claim, but wait till they want statements etc and POC's ?

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I'm out at the moment and only using a telephone.

 

However please will you have a look at the utilities subforum and you will see a very recent thread there about npower and another person who has just issued an action on exactly the same facts as yours. there is a suggested particulars of claim and I suggest that you use that as a basis.

 

By the way, please note that we are going through an upgrade and from this afternoon you won't be able to post any new material for about 2 or 3 days

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