Good morning , wondered if any could assist.

In November 2017 i called into what i believed was a service station - SOUTH GATE PARK, A120 Stansted Airport , CM24 1AA as tired and falling asleep.

i parked the vehicle in a bay went into one of the outlets McDonalds visited bathroom etc and left. Thought nothing of it .

In December received a NTK about parking and fine.

Wrote in as the driver as thought there must be a mistake . Met parking said i was only allowed to use starbucks Not Mcdonalds as was off their site.

Then sent off to polpa who said no - guilty.

Been fighting for 14 months , various debt collectors etc , threats .

Now received letter from(JAN 19) saying i owe MET £160 and instructed to write .

I Have never had such a nasty experience in nearly 50 years motoring. I honestly believe this has been designed to entrap people. I have a huge dossier . I believe the information /evidence is misleading as layout of site.

AND FORGIVE me i was told this - (but not sure if true/applicable) - the NTK said the contravention was 08th Nov 17 BUT the Notice says date of issue of this notice 20th December 17- SOME 42 DAYS later , i was told only 14 days.

What i cannot understand if true why did POPLA NOT pick this up ? Surely as experts(i am not just a pensioner) they have a duty of care - or are they independent and whose interests.

If anyone can help please it would be most appreciated .

And sorry if not to your rules on how set out not sure what i was supposed to do. tony213

Hello and welcome to CAG, you've come to the right place for help.

Your case is a bit more complicated because you appealed against a system that is designed to make you fail, in all honesty. Anyway, don't worry I think the guys here will be able to guide you through this.

Could you provide us with the information requested in the forum sticky please? It will help the guys to advise you.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

Best, HB

Sounds like ANPR. Dates are very important if so. Please fill in the link above.

If it was ANPR capture, then you must recieve the NTK from them within 14 days from the date of offence. Any time outside that, and theyre stuffed. Thats prob why they keep pestering you as you keep responding. They hope youll cave in. Really you should just ignore them until you get a pap letter, then hit them hard.

Welcome to the site. The experts will no doubt be looking in after the weekend, but in the meantime if you were to fill out the link provided by HoneyBee it will provide them with the basics to advise on. Some regulars may point out that it is not a FINE, only a court has the power to issue these, even the police an only issue Fixed Penalty Notices and likewise Councils Penalty Charge Notices. These letters from a Private Parking Company are known as Speculative Invoices.

Others will point out that by appealing as the driver you have lost the protection from the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 that you would otherwise have, particularly as the Notice to Keeper (NTK) was out of time for keeper liability. However, not all is lost, these bandits will ALWAYS get other paperwork and signage wrong. There are persuasive cases at County Court where a term prohibiting leaving the parking site has been shown as unfair and unenforceable.

To assist the experts such as ericsbrother, if you could scan the NTK after redacting all personal details, reference numbers, bar codes but leaving times shown, then upload using the means shown in this hyperlink. Also scan the other letters and similarly redact before uploading as one multipage PDF.

Hi and thanking you for helping.

1/the date of the infringement as they say was 8th nov 2017 at 14.41pm

2/the date of the Notice to Registered Keeper was was 20th December 2017

3/the date received was i believe around 24th (it was date stamped on arrival but got smudged- DEF Dec.

4/number 4 no , it just states -at the time of the notice we do not know the name of the driver, hence written to my company .

(it was a company car and was helping them out - and went to a part of the country unfamiliar).

5 yes sent photo of car

6/yes - as it was a company vehicle i had to write in as they do not pay fines . -will bring in copy sent and upload tomorrow.

had a response - basically pay up .! will bring in and upload tomorrow

7/MET Parking Services Ltd

8/South Gate Park, A120 Stanstead Airport, CM24 1AA .

This is what i describe as a small service station , Starbucks, McDonald.

which are next to each other.

they say you can go to Starbucks but not McDonald.

do not think it mentioned other appeals

i found out about POPLA - and appealed to them ,

tried to obtain evidence but said NO case must be closed.

I complained as said wanted it investigated properly and received either email or letter saying cant appeal and wont talk to you again.

Very nice people.

I then received numerous letters stating price increasing,

Various debt collection companies (many were the same people/associated companies)

and then went quiet until 2nd jan received letter from SCS Law based in London stating that i owe MET Parking now £160 and inviting me to pay up.

tony 213

PS been on google maps and found the exact location and took screenshots of the site

Yes definetly ANPR it states so (they sent about 40 pages photos etc to me

can you tell us where their paperwork uses the word FINE please?

Gick's mentioned that, dx.

HB

Now if the parking co sent the original NTK to the lease co, who named your employer who then named you as the driver then that would explain the delay in getting the notice and if they did the other bits right it would be correctly issued. that actually creates a problem for your employer as they arent allowed to name you as the driver without your permission and they cnat be liable as a company so should have just kept their big mouths shut.

Now the damand for £160 would be unlawful if they rely on keeper liability but as you ahev been named as the driver then they can try and enforce the charges if the siganeg makes it clear that these will apply and I doubt if the wording is good enough to specify exactly how this would be calculated.

SCS law are just another rentathreat as they are acting purely as a debt collector so dont panic over this letter. They may get paid to proceed further but at the moment there is no certainty to that.

Now what we would like to see is the signage at the site, esp as seen frok the entrance to the land from the public highway. Often the only signs are small ones scarreted about but nothing that can be read at 70mph as you pull off the dual carriageway (insufficient and inadequate signage).

Then check to see if they have planning permission for their cameras and signs. No PP and they are criminals and you cant enter into a criminal compact eveb if you wanted to. the local council will have the answers to that but it can be difficult getting them to understand what you are after as they may well confuse your request with signage for the facilities

Tony, thank you for your explanation in post #5 for the appeal. It is a pity that your company were not aware that these matters are purely contract law and as the supposed contract was with an individual (the driver) a corporate body (your company) has no liability, even though they are the registered keeper.

They could have told the PPC to Foxtrot Oscar.

The use of the word fine tends to give a legitimacy to the demand that does not exist (hence DX's bete noire)

Follow ericsbrother's advice to put them to bed. Sometimes he will advise what seem like offensive comments in letters, but this is from long experience what is needed. Do not be tempted to try a more reasonable tone as you will dilute the effect. These are not reasonable people that you are dealing with, they are the old clamping thugs in suits!

Have some more files but difficulty on uploading .

includes guardian newspaper report of exactly the same as me

includes guardian newspaper report of exactly the same as me

more info

extra info

hi Sorry a bit new to all of this - a bit like a fish out of water and not used to this.

my company received the notice to registered keeper - they must have got the details from DVLA so have asked those nice people in Swansea who asked for details etc.

On receipt of it was given to me to either reply or pay and if not would give my details anyway.

I wrote back to MET being honest and told them what happened - and just did not want to know. Looking back i should have just lied but i am not like that - all my life have been honest but sadly this looks this no longer pays.

aerial view.compressed (2).pdf

car parking space.compressed.pdf

Couple slapped with.compressed.pdf

Enterance 1.compressed.pdf

signs and locations.compressed.pdf

met correspondance.compressed.pdf

SCS Letter.compressed.pdf

location details.compressed.pdf

starbucks.compressed.pdf

Don't worry Tony, the guys know what to do. Please wait for them to get back here and they'll advise.

HB

read upload

use PDFMERGE

put all those into ONE multipage PDF

else well be here all day downloading single pages please

the sigange says see other signs for full conditions.

That means you havent been offered a contract but an "invitation to treat" so you cna decide you dont want to bother with their contract and still park there.

I will need better pictures of that sign so it is possible to read the small print

but if past cases are anything to go by they dont have a contract to breach unless you agree to it, this isnt the same as a proper offer of a unilateral contract via an advertisement.

They claim they dont even know they are advertising when you pull them up on the planning bit so are they lazy or stupid?

thank you.

i have been looking through the evidence they have supplied and being honest i believe they are being very devious.

it looks like the site - well on paper that is has been split into two McDonald and Starbucks and you would think it was all one car park , but some (and only some) show either.

in other words i would suspect like i did if you park and there is a huge number of all different signs which i believe has been deliberately done to confuse if you go in either they do you for parking.

The signs as sent as evidence are too small to read especially terms and conditions.

one says "PAY BY PHONE PARKING"

one says "PRIVATE PARKING"

one says 60 minutes free stay customers only

- see terms and conditions

- but dont now where these are

- probably pinned to the roof of McDonald.

it looks to me like a deliberate ploy to extract monies.

tony

Hi Managed to get hold of an image from MET parking - from another site GATWICK , not mine at Stansted - and presume they are using the same signs. ?

sign opposite starbucks.pdf

mcdonalds.pdf

no they are not

go get better pictures

Tony -you don't show the first notice from Met after the Lease company informed them you were the driver. Could you please post that up and also check with the Lease Company to see what the date of their Notice to Keeper from Met was dated and when it was received from them.

Also could you please contact the local Council and ask if they have granted permission for signs and ANPR cameras to be erected at the car park under the Town and Country [advertisements] Regulations. No permission-no contract.

hi and thank you for your assistance.

my company received a notice to registered keeper which was dated 20th December 2017 (the alleged parking offence was 8th November 17)

i did not know anything about any 14 days.

I believe we received the notice on the 22nd December (it was date stamped by my company but smudged) .

I wrote in believing to them it was a mistake on the same day 22nd DEC.

On the 24th Dec they wrote back rejected. (amazed how quick the post at xmas)

I have not written to the council yet asking about permission but will do.

Unfortunately looks like i have been a victim of very devious and unscrupulous people

i wish the government would do something to outlaw these its shocking.

tony

PS really appreciate all the help by people with such knowledge to help and assist its really great.

Southgate 3.pdf

Ah I thought that the NTK you showed first was the one they sent you not the company thus accounting for the lateness of the Notice getting to you.

[Of course I realise now that they wouldn't have sent you a NTK as you were the driver]. Met must have been over the moon when they saw the car was leased as lease companies usually pay up straight away. Instead they are never going to get paid .....................boohoo.

Hi no as the notice came in the post my office gave it to me as they knew i had the car that day . they have a policy of forwarding on details anyway as in the past have paid and tried to reclaim the charges but often been left out of pocket.

I genuinely thought the parking company had made an error and being honest wrote in.

The more i see though these appear to be nothing short of [problematic] using entrapment and signage designed to confuse on purpose and rip motorists off. tony

Have written to the council about permissions - will have to wait until i receive a responce. thanks for the tip. tony

Look on their website

Most esx council have them all there

Read these..

https://cse.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-8889411648654839:6449422593&ie=UTF-8&q=Stansted+mac+donalds&sa=Search+CAG

Hi i wrote to the council asked them about permission for the signage and cameras - just had the email below :

"Thank you for your email this has been passed to our enforcement team to investigate whether there has been any breaches of Planning Control"

tony

so that could be a "no they dont so we are looking into it" and if that is the case it doesnt matter whetehr they decide to enforce or not, they dont have PP- end of.

Yes too true these MET Parking Services are scoundrels !

They got me for using the service station which is next door to the BP station where they have split the area into TWO different zones which you cant easily see.

If you park in Starbucks bit and go to Mcdonalds they fine you,

if you go to mcdonalds park and visit starbucks same thing. you get the picture.

For me am waiting for DVLA to write back for who applied for details and also the council over signs/APR cameras and did they get permission.

when i do will post up for everyone else. tony