Here's a link from the Money Advice service that tells you how the open market option should work. This would have been the same in 2009 if you'd known what options you had.

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/how-to-shop-around-for-an-annuity

HB

Good morning HB - I am sending off SAR this morning without any additions or changes.

Can I quote what you said please - Your 'thirdly' point. The value of your pension is what it is at your chosen retirement age, it doesn't change depending on your state of health. That fund value is then used to buy an annuity.

1. I fully understand what you are saying.

2. My point is the value of my husbands pension could and I say 'could be' calculated incorrectly in March 2009

For example - I will just quote two figures from their 1991 forecast for a Lower Illustration Growth Rate of 8.5% and 13.00%.

(a) At age 65, assuming no further contributions paid - Retirement Fund of £11,500 or £23,500

(b) At age 65, assuming further contributions paid by Abbey Life - Retirement Fund of £46,300 or £78,400

On the 2 February 2009 - Quotation for options an Open Market Option is £27,285.03

So ...... looking at past issues ...... It is only seeing letters just making me 'wonder' for example -

6th January 2007 - Our letter to Abbey Life

We are writing because of their 'mess up' taking out life contributions from our bank because they were paying it under the Waiver conditions. Our first paragraph states -

'Thank you for your letter dated 3 January 2007. Upon reading the contents of this letter I am seriously concerned about the administration of my financial affairs.'

4th December 2008 - Their letter to my husband

Requesting Doctors Statement be returned. The request was on 7th Feb 2007 and it was returned on 12th Feb 2007. So....... over 1 year later they come up with that request!

Again thank you HB this support is so helpful to at least be able to work through it all in our heads.

Hi. I'm pleased you're getting there.

I understand your questions; this is the kind of thing the SAR is designed to get information about. I would wait and see what comes back and see if it answers any of your questions. After that you can go back to them with further queries.

What are you going to do about the annuity questionnaire?

HB

Hello

I thought about doing another recorded delivery letter to that MBA address where questionnaire goes to. Saying something like -

On 10th January 2019, I have contacted Abbey Life for some information. I would prefer to wait for Abbey Life to respond before completing questionnaire. Please confirm, in writing, if you are happy for this questionnaire to be put on hold for the time being?

Then surely that gives them the opportunity to say there is a closing date - doesn't it?

You see HB - if - the completed questionnaire instigated a compensation payment - what if there had been an error? The figure for the compensation could be different - who knows......

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Hello again.

I don't really have personal experience of this. I don't see why there should be a cut off date as they don't seem to have rushed to contact you, but you never know.

At this stage, I think it could be worth contacting TPAS to see if they can add anything. They have a good reputation and the advice is free, you can ask them about the questionnaire and Abbey's possible error.

https://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/

HB

Incidentally, did you query the figures with Abbey back in 2009?

Also, I'm confused about MBA's involvement because you spoke to Abbey about the questionnaire.

HB

No we did not query figures back in 2009.

First my step-father died in April 2007 and our mother was left on her own. Then suddenly in the July/August I was given the total shock diagnosis that I had an aggressive form of breast cancer. That meant an operation, chemo (loss of hair) radiotherapy and then 18 i.v. infusions (3 week intervals) of Herceptin.

Basically it took two years of treatment and then intensive checks every 6 months. It took five years before I was discharged and thankfully I am still here.

So my husband's pension was just allowed to be in the background - maybe because we were not having to find the money each month it was not priority. (I think when he saw the 'payout' figures he thought that's what it is.) Not only that my mother then relied on us.

MBA Group envelope has Abbey Life stamped on top of envelope. I asked the Abbey Life person we spoke to on the phone and I think he said they were 'employed' to deal with these questionnaires.

I will tomorrow phone the advice line through the link you have given me.

How did you get on with TPAS, Primrose?

HB

Well tried at different times but so busy. Didn't do a call back as we had an appointment at vets with our little dog at 2.30. Tried online chat - but 'we' both decided best via phone line. So will phone again Monday morning at 9 a.m. as they are only open Mon-Fri. I have an app at 11.00 for myself but if no joy on first attempt will phone when I get back and I can book a 'call back' Thank you for asking.

Good luck, I hope you get through tomorrow.

HB

Well phoned at 9 a.m. this morning and got through. The man was quite abrupt said basically I should be talking Abbey Life - did not comment at all on SAR.

I explained why we sent the SAR - because of the way Questionnaire was worded and if we answered incorrectly we might jeopardize a claim. (Past errors now raised a questions)

I said that I was concerned about a closing date for Questionnaire to be returned and was going to put it in writing. He said quite abruptly do you get statements from Abbey Life! I said 'yes' and he said that you will have phone number so phone them! He said if you have something from a company (the envelope) that is not Abbey Life then you should not speak to them.

I said it was Abbey Life who called me back and he said 'phone them!'

Maybe I didn't come across right on the phone - so it has made me feel a little unsure - but in my mind I think it is best to write rather than a phone call to Abbey Life -

Stating on 10th January 2019 have written to yourselves requesting a Subject Access Report. We have not returned as yet and would prefer to wait for yourselves to respond before completing Questionnaire. Please confirm in writing if you are willing to put this completed questionnaire on hold for the time being?

OR - I could phone and ask and whatever they say put it in the letter confirming call.

Thank you for the support - just writing this down is helping me clear my head.

UPDATE: Just phoned Abbey Life - spoke to a Justin - he said just send it in as soon as you can. So will add that to letter - draft below -

This morning I phoned your Annuity Review - Dedicated Line and spoke to Justin asking if there was a closing date for Questionnaire and he said just fill it in as soon as you can.

On 10th January 2019 I have written to yourselves requesting a Subject Access Report. Before completing Questionnaire we would like to see the information we have requested.

Please confirm in writing that you are willing to put this completed questionnaire on hold for the time being until we get the information from yourselves that we require?

Yours faithfully.....

Hi.

That's disappointing about TPAS. We don't recommend ringing companies unless you can record the call so I agree that writing is better. That way you have a paper trail.

I think the letter's OK - it's a Subject Access Request, by the way.

HB

Thank you HB in my letter - 'report' will be changed to 'request' - my hurry before going out for appointment.

Again will send our letter by recorded delivery (i.e. not to MBA Group Limited) but to the address I sent SAR which starts with The Customer Relations Manager, Abbey Life, etc.

(I nearly thought about asking what procedure would be if there was a mis-calculation on the final pension figure (in case there was an error in when they started to pay Waiver or Contributions - THEN - I thought 'NO' !!!! Take your advice - wait until I see what we get!)

I think that's best, get the information and then challenge them if you can see there's been an error.

HB

Thank you x

Good morning - unfortunately delayed in getting letter in post (have to get in car to get to a Post Office so doing it today) and I wondered about putting email address on bottom of letter.

So they could choose how to get the reply to us - or - could it make it more complicated if proof was needed? i.e. If we got no reply they could say we sent you an email must have gone to your Junk mail, etc,

Just a thought .....

Personally I would stick to real letters for the paper trail, other people may think differently.

HB

I will go with my thoughts as well - keep to letter.

Oh! Thought would be a good idea to add in between the already written - 'Before completing the Questionnaire, as we intend to submit it, we would like to see the information requested.'

That way they cannot say they thought we might have changed our mind once we see SAR and not bother to complete questionnaire.

Good afternoon - I have just received a letter in the post in response to our request. I will read it carefully later but thought it would be best to get copies to you.

Just looked at Point 4 - I did write making a complaint about how they managed refund of money taken in error for insurance. So would that be listed as a formal complaint? Also I think, I don't know your thoughts, it does display how they can make mistakes.

They ask for GP's Name and Address in order to obtain their consent prior to disclosing it to us. Interesting given we have to provide it anyway in the first place.

Ref: No 6 - Other (please provide details) should this be where we put transcript of phone calls? The person we spoke to before said phone calls were made between us. After all we need to prove they did not ask about our health and say that if we went elsewhere we could have been entitled to an enhanced annuity as they did not offer them

Thank you and will be in touch.

Good afternoon - I have just received a letter in the post in response to our request. I will read it carefully later but thought it would be best to get copies to you. [ATTACH=CONFIG]74707[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]74708[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]74709[/ATTACH]

 

Just looked at Point 4 - I did write making a complaint about how they managed refund of money taken in error for insurance. So would that be listed as a formal complaint? Also I think, I don't know your thoughts, it does display how they can make mistakes.

 

They ask for GP's Name and Address in order to obtain their consent prior to disclosing it to us. Interesting given we have to provide it anyway in the first place.

 

Ref: No 6 - Other (please provide details) should this be where we put transcript of phone calls? The person we spoke to before said phone calls were made between us. After all we need to prove they did not ask about our health and say that if we went elsewhere we could have been entitled to an enhanced annuity as they did not offer them

 

Thank you and will be in touch.

Honeybee - when you have a moment to read this - very grateful.

Looking at the forms I have copied above -

1. I think ALL boxes should be ticked - do you agree?

2. No - 5 This continues over to the next page. Here we can tick - Outset of the Policy to date.

3. Point 6 – Other (please provide details) - here we could write this statement e.g.

With reference to Policy Numbers: xxxxx and xxxxx - I require-

(a) Copies of all communication between ourselves and internal correspondence with reference to the above policies.

(b) Copies of the transcripts must include phone conversations between ourselves.

What do you think HB? The reason I have quoted two policies is because it was only my husbands but when he reached retirement age - I get included as a Joint Life Annuity. (Sorry as I say breast cancer got in the way)

However, as this is about the possibility of the compensation for 'enhanced annuity' then I thought maybe best make sure talking about both of us.

Finally - still no reply asking if they will keep the form regarding a claim on hold as yet.

Thank you again.

Hi.

Yes I think that looks OK. It's important not to make your request so narrow that they think they can send less than all the details.

I don't think I'd worry too much about the reply to delaying sending the forms at this stage, you have a paper trail. It might be worth revisiting in a couple of weeks.

HB

Thank you will send that off tomorrow. They have sent a SAE but I will also do it recorded delivery.

I appreciate all your support.

No problem. I'm sure you'll keep us updated.

HB