I will x

Here I am again - think it is best to re-cap on what situation is before I complete their questionnaire.

Looking at paperwork I have requested from them there were phone calls between us and it was because they suddenly started taking out Life Insurance premiums that apparently should cease when a Waiver comes in. Anyway they admit errors on their part apparently computer system problem.

How we joined Abbey Life - an agent came to our home as requested by ourselves.

(1) June 1987 - My husband decided to take out a private pension as his company did not pay into one for him. (We could not afford much but thought we should do something) We ticked the box for Waiver of Contributions if he was unable to work after 6 months.

(2) Unfortunately he had a RTA and he was unable to return to work. It was established that the Waiver of Contributions had to 'kick in'.

(3) My husband reached retirement age in December 2008.

(4) We had prior to that options how to take Pension. We selected what we thought was best for us.

(5) The year prior to his retirement date - My breast cancer was diagnosed in 2007 and I had treatment for around 2 years and then intense check-ups thought a 5 year period.

(6) We obviously chose options for how we took the funds in the 'package' for it to become a Joint Life Annuity. My name is now written - I suppose because we were choosing options that if anything happened to my husband then I get an annuity 50%.

(7) So it raises the question - should I have been asked about my health? It does state on their Questionnaire in the Tick Boxes - headed 'What you discussed on the call(s) points for 'your spouse'. I know we never had any phone calls asking us to consider our options - it was printed information.

All I know at that time I didn't even know if I would survive and we never thought of going to another company. I had just helped my Mum to nurse my step father who was dying of cancer at home. He passed away in 25th February 2007 and I had my diagnosis around May 2007 if I recall correctly.

Note: On the form if gives notes for completing questionnaire. In bold it states based on the conversations you had with us in the 6 months before buying your annuity. It then goes on to say please answer the questions as best as you can recall.

Have any one else her in the community dealt with this questionnaire? or - even completed one and have feedback?

I suppose whatever we put as answers that are to the best of our ability - I suppose it will be up to Abbey Life to prove their case.

Hi Primrose.

4) When did you have these options [on paper I assume] and what did you select?

6) Did their paperwork include anything about the availability of an open market option or about enhanced annuities?

Did Abbey Life advise you at all or have you seen anything that indicates you took these options without being advised by them?

7) Have they sent transcripts of the phone conversations? They might confirm if you were given advice or not.

HB

Thank you - sitting through all paperwork again now and trying to get it in context.

If you look at my 'Note' above it does seem they only seem to refer to 'call(s)'

Even Section 2 - of Questionnaire - it states during your phone call(s) were any of the following discussed. Basically they knew my husband had Waiver of Contributions through health and they certainly did not ask about myself.

That's the bit I cannot understand why is the form asking about spouse?

Anyway will carry on through - found calls about incorrect payments suddenly being taken. Prior to 6 month period.

Then asking for a Doctors Certificate that they already had. Then copy letter dated 18 December 2008 saying the records indicate policy matured on 60th birthday .... 2008 (should have been 65th) they didn't need a further medical cert from doc so if charged will refund.

Will come back to you in more detail later - getting a bit bogged down. Will answer your questions in more detail once got through this - all I know we did have any conversations about husbands health or mine when making choice.

That's the bit I cannot understand why is the form asking about spouse?

I assume you mean the Abbey Life 'potential mis-selling' form? I don't know who's written it but I read the question as possibly they should have asked about your health as you opted for a joint annuity.

Do you have transcripts of calls just before you and your husband took the annuity where your options were discussed? Or any emails confirming?

HB

Will copy Retirement Benefit Quotation - without identification name, etc. - later.

Found letter headed Quotation - says following your inquiry - please find quotation enclosed. Think I contacted them and asked how long we had to decide - will find that if I can.

Will carry on reading .......

Take your time, I know you have your work cut out.

HB

The thing is I know my husband would not be going through this. If they did everything correct why are we sent this questionnaire?

How do you mean about your husband not going through this please?

We don't know if they did everything correctly, that's why they sent you the questionnaire and why you requested the SAR. The FCA hasn't gone through Abbey's files, they've asked them to contact all clients who might have been better off with an enhanced annuity.

From what you say so far, Abbey didn't mention enhanced annuities to you and as you say, they knew your husband was unable to work because he'd had to claim waiver of premiums.

HB

Sorry if that sounds confusing - what I mean is - if I wasn't here to help my husband he wouldn't know how to handle the paperwork. Thank you for your support.

Sorry if that sounds confusing - what I mean is - if I wasn't here to help my husband he wouldn't know how to handle the paperwork. Thank you for your support.

I can understand that, he's lucky to have you helping him.

When you're ready, could you answer the other questions please?

HB

I found this online, the FCA's thinking on what firms should have done about making clients aware of enhanced annuities. Interesting reading especially from paragraph 1.10.

https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/thematic-reviews/tr16-7.pdf

HB

Thank you so much for your help. Will definitely read this today and am filing info from SAR into date order. Will come back when completed and share my thoughts so far.

Hello - first of all the FCA link was really useful. There are several important points in there and one of which i.e. 'This suggests firms are relying heavily on wake-up packs and as a result are not repeating or reinforcing key messages at appropriate points in their later significant communication with customers'

I am pleased you advised me to send for a SAR. It is a lot - and - I have actually given myself a neck pain by I suppose with keep looking back and forth. My husband has asked me if it is really worth it putting myself through this. I do have a problem of 'not letting go' until I have satisfied myself of the course of action I can/should take.

1. Bottom line they did send out a retirement pack and the first one was 23 June 2008. I now see it does mentionenhanced, impaired. (I know I was having my 3 weekly intervals of Herceptin via an IV going into in December 2008.)

2. Anyway reading printout off their computer trail I came across - for example - I quote:

(a) Dated 15 Jan 2009 - Time 10.51 'Tech benefits have autovested - no response fro clnt. Clnt has rung in and requested several quotes to be sent to him. Are we able to wind plan back?'

(b) Date 15 Jan 2009 - Time 11.14 'When did we send a pack out and did we send chasers? Please provide the brief background from 6 weeks before NRD when pack should habve been sent leading to current date.Thanks.'

© Date 15 Jan 2009 - Time 11.48 'Thanks for the info. I suspect that this will probably result in a letter of complaint but we have every reason to revert to client and state facts i.e. simply that in the absence of any communication following issue of the retirement pack the policy has been autovested in accordance with the policy conditions. Please provide him with the restrictive options and see how he responds. I hope this is of assistance to you. Many thanks.'

Several other bits go back and forth including one on

15/1/09 at 11.53 saying 'Sorry to refer back but as client is in within 9 week grace we have been winding back these types of auto invested cases as advised on referral to you which was advised by .... please can this be looked at again as no autovesting has yet been processed.'

Dated 16 Jan 2009 - Hey ... as per our conversation just now, here are the variants that the client is requesting, cheers. That is the variants on the advanced basis, the same then needs to be done for in arrears with and without. Sorry to pass on the pain, good luck!'

On 16/1/2009 - note states sending a standard irq, etc, etc.

What that generated is - laying on the our spare bed are 38 quotations all ALL dated 16 January 2009.

3. I do have a copy letter dated 12 December 2008 - that starts 'Thank you for your telephone call of 5th December 2008. etc, etc.

So .... At least it is confirmed I phoned but nothing was mentioned about enhanced annuities - if I recall correctly my call was concerned as to how how long do we have to decide. At that point they knew my husband had been on Waiver of Contributions since the 6 month period after his accident in 1989.

4. I do have a copy letter from them dated 18 December 2008. Thanking me for my letter dated 4th December 2008 where I complain that they are asking again for a Doctors certificate that they already have. It states 'Our records indicate that this policy matured on your 60th birthday i.e. 2x December 2008. As your claim ceased on that date, therefore, you should not have been sent a claim review form. It goes on to say would reimburse if fee paid to GP and regret distress, inconvenience, etc.

Conclusion: My husband would be 65 years of age on that date - just a silly letter but again proves they knew about his health.

5. I also have copies of all the complaint about taking Life Assurance premiums and the money that had to be refunded and compensation. That period was 2007.

6. When we did decide how to take pension - they ask for Birth and Marriage certificate for us BOTH. They do not ask about my health.

So bottom line is how much info do I put on my questionnaire - I just feel what I saw written by the FCA - 'This suggests firms are relying heavily on wake-up packs and as a result are not repeating or reinforcing key messages at appropriate points in their later significant communication with customers'

It is so much to take in - but - I have to get my head around it and thank you for the forum.

Hi.

I agree that you should carry on with this, I'm of the 'nothing ventured, nothing gained' school. I'm not clear which questions you're still trying to answer on their form, but I imagine your message is that you weren't given enough information to make an informed choice and that you aren't a pensions professional?

HB

Thank you - but now I have the SAR info and it has enabled me to get a 'feel' for how they have operated then I am now going to draft out how I will answer questions on their form. Probably telling them to -

1. To refer to their own internal computer history with date confirming telephone conversation regarding pension quotes, etc, etc. (Not detailing it) but letting them know that I have it.

2. Although they only want 6 months prior to the Pension agreement - I will tell them to look at Complaint file re: Waiver of Contributions. Suddenly money taken again from bank for Life Insurance and in end we were compensated and apologized to.

3. I will probably re-word what FCA said i.e. 'This suggests firms are relying heavily on wake-up packs and as a result are not repeating or reinforcing key messages at appropriate points in their later significant communication with customers'

My husband could go on to say something like -

'Given the time I had the Retirement Packs it has to be understood that not only had I had a TIA and subsequently had been fitted with a pacemaker (apart from the other medical issues identified by my GP) Abbey Life did not in writing or verbally discuss with me anything about an enhanced annuity. They did not even mention it in their letter dated ..... when they apologize for requesting another Doctor Certificate because I was on Waiver of Contributions and had been following my accident in 1989.

My wife was diagnosed with an aggressive form of breast cancer in 2007 and required approximately 2 years of treatment which was then closely monitored every six months. When they asked us, after our decision had been made for our Marriage and Birth Certificates why didn't they confirm state of health then?

I can conclude with given that I am not a pension professional and consider that given the evidence the Abbey Life already had about myself they did not provide me with enough information to make an informed choice. Finally, they should have in my opinion asked about my wife and in fact if they had I would naturally have told them what she was going through.

Note: On form are questions regarding spouse - so will be able to see what is appropriate there.

Thank you again.

Phew!!!  Finally posted it today recorded delivery!  Much thought has gone into this and thank you Honeybee for telling me about a SAR and the FCA reports.  They really helped a huge amount. 

Now we can sit and wait knowing that I have tried my hardest - without the initial questionnaire coming we would not have even 'gone' there. It took many attempts to not give too much info i.e. telling them about their past error history - had to stay focused.  So a lot of editing went on!

I will let you know how we get on and if we are successful I will post the statements we made in case anyone else comes across this.  

Thank you so much. 

Fingers crossed, Primrose, I look forward to hearing what they say. I don't suppose it will be too fast.

HB

Good morning.  Just thought I would keep you 'in the loop'.  

1. Letter sent by recorded delivery.

2. Kept checking to see when signed for - nothing.

3. Finally - contacted Post office and after a flurry of emails they said to wait until 28th March and complete a form - which I did but not sure if it was worth the effort as nothing of monetary value.

4. Decided to go on Phoenix Life website where I could send a message.  Asked if they had received it and if so was it being considered.  (Decided not to phone thought it best again to be in writing.)  The automated reply states they will respond in writing within 10-15 days and that was on 26th March.

Conclusion - seems a lot of 'work' but if we don't go though this then no good wishing we had at a later date.

Guess what!!!

No sooner had I posted my message above - our phone rang.  It was Abbey Life to say they had received the completed questionnaire and letter.  It will receive attention but the call was to answer our question regrading receipt of documents. 

That sounds like good news. They were fairly prompt last time, let's hope they don't take too long deliberating.

HB

On 02/04/2019 at 11:39, honeybee13 said:

That sounds like good news. They were fairly prompt last time, let's hope they don't take too long deliberating.

 

HB

Just received in the post a letter from Abbey Life.  One of the paragraphs state -

After considering the answers you gave in the questionnaire, we have concluded that you may have been unaware that you could have been entitled to an enhanced annuity.  An enhanced annuity pays a higher income amount if you had a pre-existing medical condition or lifestyle factor (such as smoking or being overweight) at the time you started your annuity.

For us to establish if you could have been entitled to an enhanced annuity, please could you fill out the enclosed Health & Lifestyle Questionnaire and base your answers on the period when you set up your annuity, we appreciate that it may have been a long time ago.

 It goes onto to say that if you hold a Joint Life Annuity please complete both your details and your dependent's details.

It even goes onto asking our height at the time we purchased the annuity.  So I guess we have to be extra careful here to list everything and they say they may ask GP for records.

Looking at notes they say we can ask to see the report before the Doctor returns it to us.  I quote in particular this part of their statement

'If this is the case we will tell the doctor to keep the report for 21 days so that you can arrange to see it.'  If you have not made arrangements to see the report within this time, your doctor will send the report to us.'

So my thoughts on this  -

1. I think it will be easier for us if GP does complete medical records and that we see it before they send it off.

2. Neither of us know our height at time of buying annuity?

3. We do not know our blood pressure at the time of purchase.

I would be grateful of you have any thoughts - whilst I look into this questionnaire -  that we may need to pay particular attention to?

Thank you

Hi.

As ever, I think you can only be honest. Is your height something your GP would know? If not, I would make an educated guess based on whether you think you've lost height and maybe annotate that particular question. And on blood pressure, I would imagine that if it was raised at the time there would be a note on your file.

I agree it's worth having a look at what the GP says in the report. If you're that worried, you could go and see him.

Try not to overthink this.

HB

Thank you HB.

Re: Height and weight  - I did think about putting an educated guess and by each of our details state - something like - check medical records as we both had to have GP and hospital care prior to buying the annuity.

Re: Blood pressure again request they refer to GP records.

What I did say to my husband this morning that this form is certainly a lot easier to complete.  The questionnaire was heavy going against this and thank goodness that stage is over.  Again your support is so much appreciated.

P.S. Post Office issued a book of 1st Class stamps as compensation for not being able to say our questionnaire letter had been signed for.

Usual Royal Mail Generosity