Hi all,

Just received a Notice to Keeper from Gemini stating that the vehicle broke the following condition, parking in a disabled bay.

The registered keeper is disabled and was receiving treatment as the time within the hospital, to the best of knowledge the blue badge was displayed. is it worth appealing given these circumstances? The notice also says that they contacted the keeper recently, they didn't this is the first we have heard of this.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Date of infringement 18th October 2018

Date of the NTK 21st November 2018

Date Received 23rd November 2018

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? Yes

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? No

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal]

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Not yet

7 Who is the parking company? Gemini Parking

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Broomfield Hospital Chelmsford Essex

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA

Many thanks,

Jo

Hi. Thank you for providing the information for the guys, they should be along later.

I wouldn't rush to appeal, see what the guys think of this one.

HB

I've found another thread about the same hospital, you may find more if you do a search of CAG.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?489063-gemini-windscreen-PCN-Broomfield-hosp-Chelmsford-(i-am-staff)&highlight=parking+broomfield+hospital

HB

was this a windscreen ticket?

have you still got it? if so scan it up

scan up the NTK to ONE multipage PDF please

read upload

dx

Hi there,

No windscreen ticket, first we knew about it was the notice to keeper detailed above. I've uploaded.

Thanks

Jo

Gemini Parking.pdf

so how did they issue the ticket if No ANPR pix nor no windscreen ticket

oh dear the vanishing PCN again.

"The notice also says that they contacted the keeper recently, they didn't this is the first we have heard of this."

Is this a trick to try and get the driver details??

Ok that notice appears to confirm that a ticket was placed on your windscreen backed up by the fact that the notice wasn't sent until more than 29 days had elapsed. So their action has prevented you from being able to pay the reduced rate- not that you are going to pay anything at all but it is an underhand trick.

The local paper has more information so a complaint to the Hospital Trust might do the trick as they seem sensitive to criticism and probably wishing they had never got involved with Gemini.

https://www.essexlive.news/news/broomfield-hospital-staff-member-slams-722898

Don't forget to state that you never received the ticket on the windscreen which is a well known trick by unscrupulous parking companies which means that you were unable to take advantage of the discounted price.

Your main point is that the patient in the car was disabled, did have a blue badge and was on display in the car. The lack of a windscreen picture means that you cannot confirm the position of the blue badge but if they have a photo it would indicate that they were up to their old tricks [putting a ticket on the car, photographing it then removing the ticket].

That has the added advantage for Gemini that the follow up ticket cannot be sent for at least a month by which time it becomes difficult to recall the events on the day of the alleged incident. You could also point out that as Gemini are in breach of GDPR it means that the Trust is responsible for their agents actions and you question why the Trust would use such a well known untrustworthy company anywhere near their Hospital.

Thanks for the advice,

I'll fire a letter off to the trust and let you know their response.

Jo

Be careful how you word that letter but make it clear that their pet parking co is issuing demands to people withoout following the protocols of the POFA and as such they have failed to create any liability even if they are correct about the alleged breach ( go into the detail of why they are not being truthful) and that means they have unlawfully applied for your keeper details.

Now as they are the servants of the hospital trust the the trust will also be culpable for the breach of the GDPR and that they will become entangled in any court claim that either the parking co or you initiate over this. Point out that the recent changes regarding data protection empowers the individual a lot more in this respect.

ASK for any CCTV coverage of where the car was parked at the time as a SAR, they cant lawfully refuse (but they will likely try). I bet it shows some bloke photographing your car but not ticketing it.

Now the parking co can send out a NTK using para 9 but they have to show what evidence they have that a breach occurred and the lack of piccies on their NTK damns them. We can all just write random letter demanding money with threats but would soon attract the attention of the police.

Morning all,

An update,

I have just received a response from the parking co-ordinator at the hospital stating that they have reviewed the photographic evidence which shows that the vehicle was not displaying a blue badge at the time and that they have a photograph of the vehicle being driven away before a windscreen ticket could be issued.

Therefore for the reasons stated, the ticket was issued fairly in line with current procedures and no breaches of data protection have taken place.

They have however agreed to cancel the notice which is good news.

A quick question regarding this, should they then have sent the photographic evidence in the first instance with the notice to keeper as per Ericsbrother in above post?

Thanks Jo

Yes, any photographic evidence of the breach is part of the required NTK.

The hospital have obviously spoken to the parking co rather than made their own independent assessment of both the incident and the law but have realised that this will merely cause trouble for them so have used that worn out phrase "gesture of goodwill" rather than admitting they are not competent to actually do their job and this allos th eparking co to carry on business as usual with incorrectly issued notices.

However, one more ticket cancelled and something that cna be used in the future as evidence for the next poor sod who finds their way here with a similar problem. We have long memories

well done CAG

thread title updated.

dx

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Morning all,

 

An update,

 

I have just received a response from the parking co-ordinator at the hospital stating that they have reviewed the photographic evidence which shows that the vehicle was not displaying a blue badge at the time and that they have a photograph of the vehicle being driven away before a windscreen ticket could be issued.

Therefore for the reasons stated, the ticket was issued fairly in line with current procedures and no breaches of data protection have taken place.

They have however agreed to cancel the notice which is good news.

 

A quick question regarding this, should they then have sent the photographic evidence in the first instance with the notice to keeper as per Ericsbrother in above post?

 

Thanks Jo

There is NO requirement to display a Disabled badge on private land especially if the vehicle is taxed in the disabled class. If the driver drove off before the ticket was issued, how would the person issuing the ticket know whether a BB was displayed or not. Why did it take them so long to view whether they should issue an invocie and issuing it? Sounds a bit fishy to me.

Now what they often claim is that you are agreeing to the contrcatual conditiosn on the sign and thus if you have a blue badge you can park in those specific spaces ( asuming thye can write nicely)

So all you need is a piece of blue cardboard and them write on it this is a badge and glue a pin on the back. Fulfils the requirements of the contract offered and because there is no scheme that appies to private land in England wales or Northern Ireland then they cant argue.

Scotland does have a scheme where the local council can enforce the BB scheme on private land with the landowners consent and councils are not above bullying landowners to sign up so beware there. However, a private parking co is not the council so have nothing to say on the matter regardless of the status of the land.

Well done Joannes you have had the ticket cancelled without the hassle of perhaps months of DCA's writing to you for ever increasing amounts of money.

Not quite sure why they think there was no breach of GDPR. They have admitted that they did not issue a windscreen ticket yet their NTK did not arrive until over 30 days had elapsed instead of the statutory 14 days for and ANPR capture. It would be interesting to see if the DVLA were told it was a windscreen ticket.

Just to add that if you get a letter from the hospital asking you to attend an appointment surely this is an invite onto the land managed by the the hospital and would over ride any silly conditions a parking company may decide to impose?

probably not as it invite YOU rather than a vehicle. However as they have a car aprk and have make adjustments to allow access for their disabled patients it would be stupid for a parking co to suggest they may override the Equalities Act provisions with their signage.

Likewise ticketing ambulances for stopping in the wrong place. If a trustcancels their ticket why not anyone elses, the law is the same and Crown Immunity doesnt automatically nullify a contractual obligation

Our local hospital states that every one must pay which includes those with a Blue Badge. We live in a rural area so have no alternative except to use a motor vehicle which is registered in the disabled class. Due to my condition I have to attend appointments at the hospital several times a year.