It appears a number of Gas & Electricity Companies will not offer the best tariff if you do not have a Smart Meter.....Blackmail

FS

inform MP if fact

Thread moved the appropriate forum...please continue to post here to your thread.

Andy

Even better when they realise they can't get a mobile phone signal for it to to work.

an article about it in the paper today. One of the smallwer suppliers is the worst offender.

there was also an article about the compulsory microchipping of people to get a job being suggested. Not sure how assault occasioning grievus bodily harm can be a condition of employment but who knows?

EON have been doing the same as Npower have been reported to do:

Sent a 'We are coming on xxxxxx to fit your smart meter

We notified EON that they are not fitting a smart meter and we will NEVER agree to having one fitted- end of,

op I spoke with said 'well you'll have to have one before long as the government is making it compulsory'

I just said no we wont, dont bother us or try this again or try to fit a smart meter of any kind - Is that clear enough?

He said its noted on the account.

Same as British gas.

An "engineer" knocked at my tenant door unexpectedly and said a new smart meter was going to be installed as it was compulsory.

I contacted British gas via web chat and they said it's not compulsory (copy saved)

They were also try to convince me that smart meters save money but they soon stopped when I asked to put in writing that my tenant would be £500 better off per year.

I do not trust a device that can be remotely controlled.

Who knows what could happen, maybe a couple of extra units a day piling up, nobody would know.

My arguments in ascending order of importance are:

3. These meters are not standard, and moving suppliers can mean all sorts of issues

2. There are all sorts of caveats and contradictions around what data is recorded and how it is used

1. Some unmentionable like npower could simply get the reference wrong and switch you off, even if you aren't a customer - then everyone refuses to do anything about it as 'they didn't do it' or 'you are not our customer we cant do anything'.

the real elephant in the room is who makes these smart meters and what programs have they hidden inside them?

Lets face it all those people with a home hub or wifi CCTV etc are already at the mercy of the chinese manufacurers so in the event of a trade war they will turn all of your lights on and off and kill your router as well as watch your security cameras so they can see the effects of their mayhem.

Why are we so collectively stupid as to think all of this is a good idea.

Weighing it doesnt fatten the pig as they say in Poland so smart meters dont save energy, they just monitor what you are using.

If everyone used less fuel they would put the price up to maintain their profits anyway.

cars do 60 to the gallon, why is fuel duty and car tax so high?

because you pay less per mile than the govt allwed for some 40 years ago so they have to get money by other means

EON have been doing the same as Npower have been reported to do:

 

Sent a 'We are coming on xxxxxx to fit your smart meter

 

We notified EON that they are not fitting a smart meter and we will NEVER agree to having one fitted- end of,

op I spoke with said 'well you'll have to have one before long as the government is making it compulsory'

I just said no we wont, dont bother us or try this again or try to fit a smart meter of any kind - Is that clear enough?

 

He said its noted on the account.

Hello tobyjugg2 and I'm sorry our advisor told you it was compulsory to have smart meters. It isn't. They're optional and you can refuse our offers to fit them at any time.

I know you're adamant about this and your account will have been noted accordingly. We still need to let you know what's happening though. This project is advancing and changing all the time and we've an obligation to continue to let our customers know about these developments in case they want to change their mind. This is particularly the case now as we're rolling out SMETS2 meters and, next year, begin remote updates to many of the SMETS1 meters we've previously installed. Part of this latest technology means customers will be able to change supplier and their meters will stay smart.

Malc

And what are they proposing to do with those of us who live in black holes where no mobile signal can be had? Incessant demands for something that will never work is very much akin to the demands by TV Licensing that I am under investigation for no License.

Hello tobyjugg2 and I'm sorry our advisor told you it was compulsory to have smart meters. It isn't. They're optional and you can refuse our offers to fit them at any time.

 

I know you're adamant about this and your account will have been noted accordingly. We still need to let you know what's happening though. This project is advancing and changing all the time and we've an obligation to continue to let our customers know about these developments in case they want to change their mind. This is particularly the case now as we're rolling out SMETS2 meters and, next year, begin remote updates to many of the SMETS1 meters we've previously installed. Part of this latest technology means customers will be able to change supplier and their meters will stay smart.

 

Malc

Spin it how you like:

Your organisations letter was

'we are coming to fit a smart meter on xxxxx'

not 'you can have' or 'these are available' or even 'we would like to arrange to come and fit'

... So if they didnt get the letter, or didn't understand it, or didnt understand their options - you arrive and fit them anyway.

.. Just as your telephone op tried to sell it as compulsory until I informed him I knew otherwise.

... These Quite clearly indicate to me a targeted POLICY of pressure and deceit - across much of the industry it would seem.

It has NEVER been compulsory for customers to have a smart (strange name given the many issues)

... although HMG did of course put some stupid 'targets' on the industry (obligations as you put them) (since changed) indicating it was more so for them .

You might be 'obliged' to 'inform' us - BUT we aren't obliged to be harassed or deceived

Also strange how these SMART meters seem to struggle when people (like me) move onto energy efficient led or cfl lighting etc

... plus many other issues

https://www.smart-energy.com/regional-news/europe-uk/inaccurate-smart-meters-readings/

Think yourselves lucky. I had no choice in the matter.

I live in supported housing and thanks to the EU and one of their directives that where people living in a communal setting who share equally the cost of heating and electricity, they now have to be responsible for their individual use.

We all had new fuse boxes with a smart meter built in but hardwired to a router so that individual use could be electronically monitored. We also had an air sourced heat pump fitted so we needed a heat meter fitted too. All well and good!?

This was three years ago and the system hasn't worked properly since the beginning. Smart meters failed, heat valves sticking open/closed. We have yet to have a full year of readings so that individual usage can be assessed before billing.

Progress!!!

 

We also had an air sourced heat pump fitted so we needed a heat meter fitted too. All well and good!?

 

This was three years ago and the system hasn't worked properly since the beginning. Smart meters failed, heat valves sticking open/closed. We have yet to have a full year of readings so that individual usage can be assessed before billing.

 

Progress!!!

Have you only got 1 ASHP that supplies the whole scheme or do you have individual pumps?

Have you only got 1 ASHP that supplies the whole scheme or do you have individual pumps?

We used to have a gas boiler but this was replaced with five ASPH which distribute to the whole scheme. If I had the choice, I would have gone for a ground sourced heat pump, preferably one per household but again, we had no choice.

The system does work fine but in extreme weather like last year the system struggled to cope and the heating in the communal areas (corridors, communal lounge) had to be turned off.

Before we had it fitted, the council came out and explained that we would save money but having the system installed but of course we are yet to see that. There is also the question of the Renewable Heat Incentive. Whilst we are waiting for the system of billing to work, the council can't reclaim the RHI nor have the council said that they will pass on a portion of the RHI to the residents.

The system must have cost the council thousands but this outlay was supposed to be offset by the RHI but as mentioned, nothing is happening.

Think yourselves lucky. I had no choice in the matter.

 

I live in supported housing and thanks to the EU and one of their directives that where people living in a communal setting who share equally the cost of heating and electricity, they now have to be responsible for their individual use.

 

We all had new fuse boxes with a smart meter built in but hardwired to a router so that individual use could be electronically monitored. We also had an air sourced heat pump fitted so we needed a heat meter fitted too. All well and good!?

 

This was three years ago and the system hasn't worked properly since the beginning. Smart meters failed, heat valves sticking open/closed. We have yet to have a full year of readings so that individual usage can be assessed before billing.

 

Progress!!!

Yes the EU demands that no-one has to pay someone elses bills, even if they choose to do so,

and like the UK ALONE has 'plans' and policies for a smart network.

Other than the requirement for people to be able to pay just for what they use, I believe nothing else is LAW - EU or UK - Please correct me if this view in wrong.

I expect the method of implementation was whatever was most convenient/cheapest to the people running the housing and that UK and EU growing plans for smart energy networks is 'justification' aka excuses for organisational 'policy'

I'll bet if it was cheaper to put individual meters in they would have.

http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.com/2018/03/data-protection-and-smart-meters-gdpr.html

https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/smart-meters-not-needed-after-all-for-european-power-grid/

Germany dont like 'em either ...

Ah see the later post explains more re cost and policies

Worth a read re the drivers of smart meters

https://www.imeche.org/news/news-article/closure-of-uk-coal-and-nuclear-plants-to-create-electricity-supply-gap-of-up-to-55-by-2025

Trouble is its not much use without smart houses/smart fridges etc and/or individual house wiring circuits to support that

eg One circuit with fridges and freezers all connected that could be switched off for 15 mins or so at peak loads without affecting essentials like your TV (sic)

Other than that they are just data collection devices really.

 

 

Other than that they are just data collection devices really.

 

 

And the capability of disconnection!

I know much of the statements on the linked page are simply misleading at best

https://www.smartenergygb.org/en/about-smart-meters/what-is-a-smart-meter?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Dynamic%20ads&utm_term=smartenergygb&utm_content=Dynamic%20ads

but out of interest has anyone even been offered the following?

Quote from link, my *'s:

The data your smart meter captures about your energy usage is strongly protected by law. You have control over it, including the right to decide:

* how often your smart meter sends data to your energy supplier (monthly is minimum, daily or half-hourly are optional)*

* whether to share data with other organisations, like price comparison websites

* i f your supplier can use your meter readings for sales and marketing purposes.

Did Joe public even know these appear to be standard uses?

Anyone attempted to apply it eg Only monthly data sent, no sharing the data or using it for anything other than generating a bill? (and checked it has been applied via SAR)?

Your case would be very interesting silverfox ...

And the capability of disconnection!

:-/

Yes - and By people who seem demonstrably happy to 'mislead' when it suites their 'targets' ...

... Not the sort of people I would trust.

Keep taking regular readings folks - smart meters or not.

In summary, what can smart meters do for you that a far simpler, far cheaper and more personal with your data monitor cant do

1. Cut you off

2. Give your data to others

3. Increase your bills with the cost of rollout

4. Make it more awkward to swap suppliers - smart meters are literally dumb at that

5. Make you lazy and trust them and stop taking readings yourself when you should NOT trust them

6. Get the reading wrong (LOTS higher) when you use led or cfl lighting

7. Change your tariff without letting you know

Just ask (now ex) Iresa customers with smart meters how smooth its been ......

Now the positives for the customers

1. Some wont have to submit meter readings once a month or once a quarter depending on signal and compatibility

On the question of regulation, this may be useful for communal living

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/3120/pdfs/uksi_20143120_en.pdf

Notice how it only goes on about heating and not electricity usage. Our council thought ahead and introduced electricity meters to stop people 'gaming' the system. If electricity usage was continued on a shared basis, someone could turn off the charged for heating and used fan heaters for heat. Perfectly responsible IMO

And what are they proposing to do with those of us who live in black holes where no mobile signal can be had? Incessant demands for something that will never work is very much akin to the demands by TV Licensing that I am under investigation for no License.

Hello ploddertom and I agree. There are a number of challenges facing the smart meter roll-out; not least difficulties with mobile phone signals. Other obstacles are down to issues in specific regions, the type of property and current metering set-ups. There are also certain local difficulties that don't become clear until a technician visits a property.

As you say, the strength of the mobile phone signal is particularly important. We use electronic communications technology similar to the SIM cards in mobile phones to set up a two-way communication between homes/businesses and us. This lets us take meter readings remotely. Some areas show as having a strong enough signal but local circumstances water it down sufficiently to make it unusable for smart meters.

We're working to meet these challenges and are on course to be able to offer smart meters to all our customers by the end of 2020.

Malc

So what are the benefits to the customer Malc?

Well ... Apart from not having to (of course they should though) check the meter readings

... then submit them once a month or so, as I do.

I'll acknowledge in advance that they can more easily see how much the meter is reporting them as using, ... which a none smart meter monitor I was given 'free by a power company many years ago also does.

Other than that, they dont tell you whats using or how to reduce it do they?

Effectively - You are using some electricity/gas - go sort it?

The supplier can cut them off - justified or not (home monitor will help with that - it will show no usage if its got a battery or just be off - like the lights

The supplier apparently can change the tariff without notice - as reported on these forums. Does the home monitor show when a suppliers done that? Or do you just have to figure it out the old way?

Making changing suppliers easier is a no go as often as not they will go dumb, despite using the airwaves and that impact on your wifi router etc.

So what are some real benefits to the customer if any Malc?

(other than assisting risky to health and wealth and well-being 'just trust us' bone idleness?)

Spin it how you like:

Your organisations letter was

'we are coming to fit a smart meter on xxxxx'

not 'you can have' or 'these are available' or even 'we would like to arrange to come and fit'

 

... So if they didnt get the letter, or didn't understand it, or didnt understand their options - you arrive and fit them anyway.

 

.. Just as your telephone op tried to sell it as compulsory until I informed him I knew otherwise.

 

... These Quite clearly indicate to me a targeted POLICY of pressure and deceit - across much of the industry it would seem.

 

 

It has NEVER been compulsory for customers to have a smart (strange name given the many issues)

... although HMG did of course put some stupid 'targets' on the industry (obligations as you put them) (since changed) indicating it was more so for them .

 

You might be 'obliged' to 'inform' us - BUT we aren't obliged to be harassed or deceived

 

 

 

Also strange how these SMART meters seem to struggle when people (like me) move onto energy efficient led or cfl lighting etc

... plus many other issues

 

https://www.smart-energy.com/regional-news/europe-uk/inaccurate-smart-meters-readings/

Hello tobyjugg2 and thanks for coming back to me.

Thank you also for your views. It's this type of feedback plus other posts on CAG and similar Forums that help us structure our approach to the smart meter roll-out as well as many of our other activities. I've sent your comments to our senior management team to help inform future decisions.

When did you receive the letter you mention? I ask because we've recently added new wording to our smart meter letters to make it clear to customers that they don't have to agree to smart meters if they prefer not to. This change was as a result of feedback from Forums like CAG. As I say, it's a recent change which is being introduced in stages and it looks like it missed the letter we sent to you.

I'd be interested in other comments you might have and am always happy to feedback as above. As with the recently amended letters, it does have an impact.

Malc

Perhaps add some honest real world benefits to the customer in the letter?

Test em by listing here beforehand

We're waiting ....