Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


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  1. #1
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    Default Excel/BW ANPR PCN - i paid! - Providince St Wakefield WF1 3BG

    Here's a brief run down of history of my situation.

    I regularly parked in the Providence Street, Wakefield carpark, operated by Excel, and generally used the Ringo App to pay for parking.

    My usual habit was to park the car and then whilst walking to the office, use the app on my phone to make the payment.

    On the 2nd May this year I was unable to make payment, errors connecting etc. Each attempt to pay resulted in failure. On arriving at the office I tried to log into my account using the desktop PC, again there were difficulties with logging into the site. I eventually suceeded in making the payment. By this time 1 hour 18 minutes had passed between entering the carpark and making the payment.

    I thought nothing more of it until the notice from Excel, for not displaying a valid pay and display ticket. I responded via email pointing out that a ticket had been purchased. Their response was that sufficient time (10 minutes) was allowed for purchasing a ticket and that 'payment for parking had not been correctly made'.

    An appeal was made through IAS, which was, without any surprise, found in favour of Excel.

    The matter has been placed in the hands of BW Legal who are pursuing the matter. I have had two letters from them, both have gone unaswered. The first stating they are acting for Excel. The second pointing out that I hadn't responded to their first letter and advising of the possibility of county courticon Proceedings.

    The initial claim from Excel was, and appears to still be the case despite providing a copy of the receipt, that I stayed for 528 minutes without payment.

    They don't appear to be bright enough to switch their claim to being that the 10 minute grace period was exceeded and not that a ticket wasn't purchased.

    This leads to my request for advice / information. I have attached a PDFicon showing Excel's handing over of the issue to BW, and BW's confirmation of the instruction. I've also included a photo of the sign at the entrance to the carpark and outlined in red the statements that assistance is requested.

    1) Does the PCN £100 section bear any weight? As I didn't make a payment until 1 hour 18 minutes after parking, was any contract entered into? If not is it possible to "breach the T&Cs"? Would it stand up in court?

    2) The T&Cs for the site are situated at the ticket machines, some 30+ yards away from this sign. What weight and how enforceable is the section marked "!"?

    As pointed out in the appeal through IAS, Excel haven't lost any revenue. I paid £5.00 (12 hours) for parking and stayed 528 minutes (entry to exit times). The payment was late but had I managed to pay at the time of entering I would have paid £5.00 and stayed the exact same amount of time.

    My view and from what I've read in other postings, the best that can be held against me is that of trespass for the 1 hour 18 minutes between entering the carpark and purchasing the ticket. And, if this is the case, then it's not Excel that has the power to pursue this course of action. It is the land-owner that has to take it and that claim would be restricted to the amount of the loss of revenue / damage caused. In this case the grand sum of £0.

    My tack is to continue to ignoreicon the communications from Excel and BW Legal and defend any County Court proceedings that they see fit to pursue.

    Any / all thoughts, advice and pointers will be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks for reading.

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Excel/BW ANPR PCN - i paid! - Providince St Wakefield WF1 3BG

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
    it makes a thread twice as long to scroll through..save data costs
    If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Excel/BW ANPR PCN - i paid! - Providince St Wakefield WF1 3BG

    Quote Originally Posted by cagedbird View Post
    Excel haven't lost any revenue. I paid £5.00 (12 hours) for parking and stayed 528 minutes (entry to exit times). The payment was late but had I managed to pay at the time of entering I would have paid £5.00 and stayed the exact same amount of time.
    The experts will be on in the morning, but in my (very limited) knowledge this is the key point. If they were daft enough to do court, a judge would give them a good kicking. However, await the experts.


  4. #4

    Default Re: Excel/BW ANPR PCN - i paid! - Providince St Wakefield WF1 3BG

    they have no claim, you paid and that is that No such thing in the parking contract as the payment not correctly made. What if you paid cash, would they sue you for using 10p coins of a particular year they didnt like as being not correctly made?


    You paid and that is all that matters. their system being crap isnt your fault, the reality is you didnt actually have to pay them by that stage, your attempts were good enough and their dodgy system mitigates your actions. Excel have lost loads of court claims for this sort of thing, when it comes to it you can remind them of a few, we will dig some out when they get BW to waste their money with a begging letter.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Excel/BW ANPR PCN - i paid! - Providince St Wakefield WF1 3BG

    1. Date of the infringement[s] - 2nd May 2018
    2. Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] - 14th May 2018
    3. Date received - 17th May 2018
    4. Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? - Not that I can see
    5. Is there any photographic evidence of the event? - Yes
    6. Have you appealed? [y/n?] post up your appeal - Yes
    7. Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up - Yes
    8. Who is the parking company? Excel Parking Services Limited
    9. Where exactly [carpark name and town] - Providence Street, Wakefield.
    10. For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under? - IAS


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  6. #6

    Default Re: Excel/BW ANPR PCN - i paid! - Providince St Wakefield WF1 3BG

    Ok the time of the BREACH is 6pm or thereabouts, what time did you pay up?
    Until you leave you havent breached the agreement as the contract is not made at entry with this sort of payment system.

    so for example, if they via their system decided you were so naughty to pay late they wanted damages instead they should have blocked your payment and issued the demand stating the time of the refused payment.

    Now this isnt definitive but for example,
    a car park with a barrier only charges you at exit.
    In this case you could pay them for 2 separate parking periods without moving your vehicle past their cameras.
    How would they cope?
    answer,
    the same way as now,
    get it wrong and demand money come what may.

    They accepted the payment so accepted the variation of their standard contract.
    you made an offer and they accepted so the scrawl on the wall no longer counts.

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Excel/BW ANPR PCN - i paid! - Providince St Wakefield WF1 3BG

    Hi EB,

    I entered the carpark just after 9am, managed to pay, via Ringo, at about 10:20am and left the carpark just after 6pm.

    I have pointed out to Excel that at the time of the alleged breach a valid, paid for session was in progress [they've seen the evidence], but the thing they keep on pushing is the 1 hour 18 minutes that the car was parked without a 'valid pay & display' ticket. They appear to be fixated on the '10 Minutes' grace period and the £60/£100 penalty for exceeding it.

    It's derogatory to Muppets, but it's what we're dealing with - absolute, total Muppets.


  8. #8

    Default Re: Excel/BW ANPR PCN - i paid! - Providince St Wakefield WF1 3BG

    They haven't a cat in hells chance of winning in court if they are that stupid, you paid ergo no loss,

    The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Excel/BW ANPR PCN - i paid! - Providince St Wakefield WF1 3BG

    you paid ergo no loss,
    I've pointed that out to them as well. It was also mentioned (and ignored) in the IAS - Kangaroo Court - appeal.

    Do I point this out to BWL, or ignoreicon everything until the Court paperwork arrives?

    I'm in favour of the latter - ignoreicon.


  10. #10

    Default Re: Excel/BW ANPR PCN - i paid! - Providince St Wakefield WF1 3BG

    ignoreicon until/unless you get a letter of/before claim from BW or a claimformicon from northants bulkicon court

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
    it makes a thread twice as long to scroll through..save data costs
    If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Excel/BW ANPR PCN - i paid! - Providince St Wakefield WF1 3BG

    Thanks, DX.


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