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  1. #1
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    Default SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    Hi
    we recently asked our landlord for recognition of our tenants association.
    We received the below late reply, after formally requesting recognition.

    Would this be grounds to send them a SARicon as they say they have evidence on file?

    Also what would the best way to go about this, we have years of email trails so they shouldn't need to ID us.

    Thanks in anticipation
    Desamax

    Dear M ********,

    Upon receipt of your email dated **.**.18 I discussed the matter with our solicitors who confirmed that with the evidence we hold on file neither yourself or M****** are fit to be part of this proposed association.

    This is irrespective of our own views on the matter generally.

    I will pass on your email dated 13th instant to our solicitors for their perusal.

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  2. #2

    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    You dont need any excuse to send an SARicon..yes do it

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  3. #3

    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    Thread title updated and moved to residential forum

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
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  4. #4

    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    Hi

    I assume we are talking about a Registered Social Landlord (RSL) i.e. Housing Association/Trust etc.

    What I find completely strange is it is up to the RSL to decide about adding a new Tenant Association and if you have not met their criteria how to rectify that and reapply there Solicitor should have no bearing on this.

    The RSL like many will have a Criteria you need to meet for your Tenant Association to be recognised. Have you asked them for a copy of this? (if not ask for a copy).

    Simple question does your Tenants Association you wish to Register with them have a Constitution? (this is one on many things you need in place before even considering trying to register.

    Did you do your research beforehand on what needs to be in place? (if not ask the RSL exactly whats needed)

    I have to agree check their website for their new SARicon which should now have changed in line with the GDPRicon.

    You and the other individual have every right to ask them for clarification as to why they state evidence we hold on file neither yourself or M****** are not fit to be part of this proposed association. (are there any reasons you are aware of as the state the hold on you?)

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    Hi thanks for the reply, we are private long leaseholders in a mixed use building 6 small flats and two commercial units.



    We have formally requested to become a “recognised tenants association” we have sent the constitution paperwork signed by all members (4 residential leaseholders) if we get no response or they refused to recognise us, we can then ask the FTT for recconigion. Our Management co and Freeholder have the same directors so are the same under different hats. They don’t have a website.



    I hope this doesn’t change anything?


    We are not aware of any evidence they could possibly have on us.



    Thanks again.

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  6. #6

    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    In the mean time anything you sent to them about any matter should be sent identically by the other leaseholders, so the have to deal with 4 identical requests at once.
    It's in their interest to recognise your tenants association, if they don't, keep on making complaints and requests in 4 copies each signed by one leaseholder.
    They'll soon make mistakes, mix up names and breach GDPRicon and other regulations so you can shoot in the barrel where they hide.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    Thanks, very interesting advice, and very much appreciated


  8. #8
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    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    Hi again the freeholder has a few day left to answer my SARicon, no reply as yet.

    However they have sent me a counter request below, Iím a sole trader and conduct most of my business on the phone or by meeting my tenants and others, I also donít keep records for more than 7 yrs. Anyone have any advice on the below?

    I note they signed it under their personal name, not the usual LTD Co but are using the COs registered address.






    In consultation with the ICOicon please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law relating to:-

    All emails, correspondence and records from yourself and between yourself and your tenants and any other third party from the inception of your lease dated ****

    It may be helpful for you to know that data protection law requires you to respond to a request for data within one calendar month.

    If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer, or relevant staff member. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissionerís Office can assist you. Its website is ico.org.uk or it can be contacted on 0303 123 1113.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Thanks in anticipation


  9. #9
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    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    Quote Originally Posted by DESAMAX View Post

    In consultation with the ICOicon please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law relating to:-

    All emails, correspondence and records from yourself and between yourself and your tenants and any other third party from the inception of your lease dated ****
    That makes no sense to me as a SARicon. You can only ask for copies of data that's about you (the requestor). Are you saying that your Landlord is asking you to disclose data you hold about other people, such as tenants of your own business? If so they have no right to it. I assume your own business makes you a data processor who is obliged to respond to SARs?

    Only data about living human beings can be requested under a SAR. Not data about corporate legal entities such as companies. That's probably why they sent the request in a personal capacity not on behalf of the Limited company. So they can only ask for data about them personally, not data about the Landlord as a Limited company. And any other names of individuals in the documents should be redacted.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    Thanks for the response.
    To be honest I donít get what he is asking for. I have only coresponded with his company via email, he obviously has copies of the same.
    The only Data I have is his name his companyís names, email address, companys registered office address his office phone number. If thatís classed as data? I have discussed maintenance problems with the freeholder company with my tenant and have also copied them in on any emails sent relating to their problems.
    I am a self employed landlord of a leasehold under his companyís freehold. I self manage the property. I sent him the SARicon as advised in my OP.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    Quote Originally Posted by DESAMAX View Post
    Thanks for the response.
    To be honest I donít get what he is asking for. I have only coresponded with his company via email, he obviously has copies of the same.
    The only Data I have is his name his companyís names, email address, companys registered office address his office phone number. If thatís classed as data? I have discussed maintenance problems with the freeholder company with my tenant and have also copied them in on any emails sent relating to their problems.
    I am a self employed landlord of a leasehold under his companyís freehold. I self manage the property. I sent him the SARicon as advised in my OP.
    If that's the only data you hold, then that's all you need to send.

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  12. #12

    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    I would be tempted to pare it down even more and say that you hold no personal dataicon in his name and that any data retained by you about any company is outside the scope of the legislation.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    Thanks for the responses,

    I received this response from them yesterday.....

    In response to your subject access request and having discussed the matter in detail with the Information commissioner's office I set out below my response.



    All your personal dataicon has been supplied by you and is solely used in connection with your lease dated 1990s.



    Your data has not been subject to any automatic processing and has not been used in any way to categorise you or to place you on any list.



    Any correspondence that is deemed privileged to include any correspondence I have had with solicitors regarding your breach of contract or any other matter is deemed privileged and I do not have to divulge same.



    I shall be sending you all the required personal data under separate cover.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    They have till early next week to forward the data.

    I am interested as to what evidence they hold on me, that leads them to believe i am not fit to be on a "Recognised Tenants Association", they have also informed me in the passed that my file has been passed onto their Solicitors.

    Can anyone advise or comment ?

    Thanks


  14. #14
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    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    It is correct that Legal Privilege is one of the Exemptions under GDPRicon, and legally privileged documents do not have to be disclosed in a SARicon response. As you yourself say that they have been in discussions with their solicitor about you the Legal Privilege exemption may be justified. There's more detail about this exemption on the ICOicon. I was going to post a link for you but ICO site seems to be down at the moment. What counts as a legally privileged document is complex though, so get hold of the ICO guidance.

    There seems to be more to this story than you have told us.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    The Freeholder/Man Co has breached their maintenance contract and has been found to be overcharging on service charges and insurance premiums. We have taken them to task on this. They have alleged my breach of contract (that I rebuff)for nearly three years and state they are still seeking legal advice on that. We have recently tried to form an RTA, they refused on the above grounds hence the SARicon. the RTA has now been put to the FFT for recognition.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    Hi again, I received the email with the my data attached the data disclosed was my name, Address, Mobil Number, & email address.
    They have stated in an email ď that the evidence we hold on file neither yourself or Mr X are not fit to be part of this proposed associationĒ
    They have also previously stated that they would send my file to their solicitors.

    Im confused as to is the above statement and file could be classed as prvelliged information.
    Thanks


  17. #17

    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    if the law allows you to form a TA then they will have to put up or shut up at some point, presumably if and when they refuse to recognise it and you take the matter further. I would reckon they are trying to make the other tenants wobble on this and pull out or ask you to drop yourself from the scheme.
    This will undoubtedly be in the freeholders interest


  18. #18
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    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericsbrother View Post
    if the law allows you to form a TA then they will have to put up or shut up at some point, presumably if and when they refuse to recognise it and you take the matter further. I would reckon they are trying to make the other tenants wobble on this and pull out or ask you to drop yourself from the scheme.
    This will undoubtedly be in the freeholders interest
    We are moving forward with the RTA
    We have applied to the FTT for recconigsion.
    The advise to issue a SARicon is confusing as it donít seem any info has to be released on my above comments. Although it did wind them up a bit. As they issued a counter SAR.


  19. #19

    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    as yopu have asked to see the data they hold on you and they ahve refused but given a statement aying you are an unfit person then they will ahve to back those words up at some point.
    By all means ask the ICOicon about whether they are entitled to withold your data as it is apparent that what they say is legal priviledge only covers part of what they hold and the ICO can tell them to send you the stuff or risk sanctions.
    If t goes to court they will have to show their hand but as already said I think they are trying to put you and the others off from forming the TA and forcing them to behave. There is also a costs issue, they may be trying to empty your wallets to make you all give up. Standard tactic


  20. #20
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    Default Re: SAR re getting landlord to recognise our tenants association.

    Hi again, i had this response from our freeholder ....

    having discussed the matter in detail with the Information commissioner's office I set out below my response.
    All your personal dataicon has been supplied by you and is solely used in connection with your lease dated 1900s.
    Your data has not been subject to any automatic processing and has not been used in any way to categorise you or to place you on any list.

    Any correspondence that is deemed privileged to include any correspondence I have had with solicitors regarding your breach of contract or any other matter is deemed privileged and I do not have to divulge same.

    Thanks



    Do i have grounds to challenge this as they have CC six other leaseholders to the comments about me and the other leaseholder.


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