Dear all,

Exeter Road Car Park, Braunton, EX33 2JJ - Parking Charge Notice

I have also been subject to this rather off-putting Parking Charge Notice in the same place;

Following the thread above I have completed the questions from the link below:

1. Date of the infringement: - 05/10/18.

2. Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]: - 11/10/18.

3. Date received: - 12 or 13/10/18.

4. Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?]: - Yes.

5. Is there any photographic evidence of the event?: - Yes. Two photos of car. Two of numberplate [both dark].

6. Have you appealed? [y/n?] post up your appeal]: - Not yet, but I have drafted it and posted below.

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up: - N/A - not yet.

7. Who is the parking company?: - Premier Park Ltd

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]: - Exeter Road Car Park, Braunton, EX33 2JJ

Draft online Parking Charge Notice Appeal wording:

"Dear Sir/Madam,

Please be advised that in normal circumstances I am law and rule abiding, in any case.
At the time in question this was no different, however, after recalling this journey to an area that I am not familiar with and which receives a significant amount of tourism traffic, I would state that the terms and conditions of the car park are not sufficient for the average visitor to use and create a valid contract.

Specifically I am appealing against the availability of, and clearness of, the signage and how well lit the car park is to make this reasonably visible to any user in order to create an acceptable contract.

At the time of the evening stated, and as can be evidenced from your own photographic evidence stated, it was almost pitch black dark if not for the light omitted from a vehicle itself. So much so that the vehicle make, model, colour or driver cannot be determined.

If I recall correctly, at the given time of the evening, a bus also pulled into the bus lane outside the car park on Exeter Road, meaning that anyone would have to tightly pull in front of it to gain access to the car park, missing blocked entry signage and parking terms signage.

The darkness of the evidence provided also does not display and make clear were my car was photographed and if it even entered the car park or remained stationary/unattended there for any period of time at all.


Please can I appeal to good faith that if the displays were clear and visible I would have seen no option but to comply with the terms and conditions, but in this case, for multiple reasons, the terms were not clear enough for me to be made aware to do so at the time.

There is also no evidence provided to the contrary that the car park is clearly displayed, including its terms, or sufficiently lit to substantiate the claim that any contravention was intentionally made at the time.

If you do not agree that this penalty has been unfairly applied and reject my appeal, I will be left with no option but to further this appeal with IAS.

I look forward to hearing from you

Regards,"

---------------

Any help you could give here would be greatly appreciated?? and I hope that this helps others

Thank you

as they are members of the IPC all your appeal will do is waste a stamp, it wont be allowed and nor will the IAS appeal.

Post up their NTK so we can see if they have created a keeper liability in the wording as it has to fit in with the protocols of the POFA 2012 and most IPC members dont bother because they have Will and John at gladstones/IPC to fall back on and they have superpowers that mena they dont have to obey the law.

Hi and welcome to CAG

It is unusual for an IPC member to be using PoFA. By all means appeal to PP but expect to get rejected but that means you then having to go to the Independent Appeal Service (IAS) who will also reject your appeal for the simple reason that it's not in their members interests to go against them. The IPC, the IAS are run by the same people so how can an appeal ever be treated with an unbiased opinion.

If you did appeal to PP, ensure that you never name the driver, You are under no obligation to do so.

My personal opinion. Ignore as they have taken one case to court this year.

I will have a look on google to see what is visible at the site in daylight.

made my comments on the other thread you tagged on to but would like to see the NTK so we can see if they have got the wording right to even start a fight, let alone win one.

Posts moved to your own thread

so in short file your appeal in the bin and show us what they have sent. We can then advise from there as to what to do next but it will in the long run include getting images of the siganeg and equipment at the site.

as they are members of the IPC all your appeal will do is waste a stamp, it wont be allowed and nor will the IAS appeal.

 

 

Post up their NTK so we can see if they have created a keeper liability in the wording as it has to fit in with the protocols of the POFA 2012 and most IPC members dont bother because they have Will and John at gladstones/IPC to fall back on and they ahve superpowers that mena they dont have to obey the law.

Not familiar with the term NTK but I assume you're referring to the terms on the back so I have posted up the letter, both sides..

181011 Premier Park Ltd.pdf

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

 

It is unusual for an IPC member to be using PoFA. By all means appeal to PP but expect to get rejected but that means you then having to go to the Independent Appeal Service (IAS) who will also reject your appeal for the simple reason that it's not in their members interests to go against them. The IPC, the IAS are run by the same people so how can an appeal ever be treated with an unbiased opinion.

 

 

If you did appeal to PP, ensure that you never name the driver, You are under no obligation to do so.

 

 

My personal opinion. Ignore as they have taken one case to court this year.

 

 

I will have a look on google to see what is visible at the site in daylight.

So what we're saying here is that the people giving oversight are in bed with the people they're giving oversight to and rely on their membership to survive, so will not act independently!?

Conclusion being that there is no point in doing anything other than settling the Parking Charge?

Yes to your first question but definitely no to the second one.

HB

Yes to your first question but definitely no to the second one.

 

HB

So the big question is, what do I do now. There's a lot of favour for not just settling the PCN, but what else can I do successfully?

what to do? well read a bundle of the thread on here for starters and then you will realise what NTK means and then realise why we say do nothing for the moment. Ignorance of their modus operandi will cause you more grief than their letters so sit tight and use the time to learn a few things from other posts

you will then see that their NTK isnt compliant with the POFA to create any liability or debt at all as they have missed out a vital phrase from the letter.

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

 

It is unusual for an IPC member to be using PoFA. By all means appeal to PP but expect to get rejected but that means you then having to go to the Independent Appeal Service (IAS) who will also reject your appeal for the simple reason that it's not in their members interests to go against them. The IPC, the IAS are run by the same people so how can an appeal ever be treated with an unbiased opinion.

 

 

If you did appeal to PP, ensure that you never name the driver, You are under no obligation to do so.

 

 

My personal opinion. Ignore as they have taken one case to court this year.

 

 

I will have a look on google to see what is visible at the site in daylight.

Were you able to look it up and did you find anything worth noting of use?

what to do? well read a bundle of the thread on here for starters and then you will realise what NTK means and then realise why we say do nothing for the moment. Ignorance of their modus operandi will cause you more grief than their letters so sit tight and use the time to learn a few things from other posts

The problem is, I'm just a person. A person who lives 250 miles from where a parking contravention supposedly took place, which would cost me more than the charge again just to go down there and take photos as evidence.

I'm just an average person who has no history of this sort of infraction and doesn't really want one hanging over their head either, much like most of the people who will be reading this and will generally be decent people. I have no knowledge of the industry or the people who influence it and it's perfectly fine to offer help but none of this is objective and I could just be leading myself into having something that is going to hang over me longer and create further cost in the long run.

It's also fine to use acronyms when explaining something to save time, but it then takes me (or any average person looking at this with a plead for help) ten times the amount saved just to work out what everyone is saying. Time that then evaporates and in less than 24 hours I am staring down the barrel of a PCN that is double the cost it is now.

I don't know what a Notice To Keeper should or shouldn't say, what a keeper liability needs to say, what vital phrases should be included, and I am relying solely on advice given here to completely ignore every sign that I should settle it and give myself the peace of mind that I'm not going to receive increased demands or worse, a court letter. I would much rather not roll-over, and reject a biased system, but what evidence do I have to go on!? Even if the PCN I have been issue with has the wrong wording, what is there that I can do with that??

there are a few threads here already on this carpark

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?482884-Premier-Park-Exeter-Road-Braunton-PCN-Dark-did-not-notice-that-payment-was-required-in-evening

and to understand the abbreviations

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?168275-Posting-in-this-Forum-and-A-Z-of-Motoring-Terms

don't give in!

Hi, I started on that thread and than moved it to a new thread.

The information on that thread is just as inconclusive as the information given on mine.

Even if the notice to keeper isn't compliant with POFA, there isn't anywhere that says they won't hound you to death with demand letters and threats of court.

Whilst all of this is encouraging, it's almost impossible to see how it can be challenged.

It's not nice to receive threatening letters, but at the moment that's all they are. You're not facing a court case. No judge is ordering you to pay money. Some fleecers are trying it on, that's where you are at present.

These conmen rely on scare tactics so drivers think it's better to pay … whereas in reality they are often paper tigers. As silverfox wrote: "My personal opinion. ignore as they have taken one case to court this year". If the company won't do court, how can they make you pay? - they simply can't!

As well as the threads dx mention, have a look through the first sticky above, which is a collection of successes against these thieves, it's not impossible to beat them, in fact often it's very easy.

they won't hound you to death with demand letters and threats of court. Whilst all of this is encouraging, it's almost impossible to see how it can be challenged.

They WILL hound you to death with demand letters and threats of court. But why does this worry you? It's just toilet paper sent by paper tigers. It means nothing. Until you get a proper legal Letter Before Action there's nothing to worry about.

They WILL hound you to death with demand letters and threats of court. But why does this worry you? It's just toilet paper sent by paper tigers. It means nothing. Until you get a proper legal Letter Before Action there's nothing to worry about.

That is my whole point - I don't want to receive a proper legal Letter Before Action of any kind, regardless of whether 100 or 0 demand letters come before that...

There's no real solution here.

ofcourse there is DF!!

have you never had debt collection letters before from DCA's??

that's all they can do is send threat-o-grams

they have zero legal powers..they are not bailiffs

dx

your best bet is to get reading any/all threads in this forum.

the more you read the stronger we become.

you'll soon get the idea

DX did you really mean 'your best bet is not to get reading' ?

I agree about reading up on how these people work and how they can be defeated. As far as I can see, you've only read a very few threads on parking companies.

Fwiw, if I had a parking problem I would want someone like ericsbrother advising me and I would put my trust in him. You have to admit that what you've done so far on your own initiative has only made things harder for you, sadly.

HB

DX did you really mean 'your best bet is not to get reading' ?

:lol:

editing now..

dx

you have a choice, stand up or pay up.

We are here to help with the latter and can show you why the debt isnt real and how to defeat the parking co's greed but we cant make them stop abusing the law or stop harassing you, that is the only way they can earn ANY money as almost none of their demands are legal.

Even if you pay up how do you stop them claiming that you still owe money?

It is only becasue they know they will be clobbered by the authorities if they did that they dont.

They all used to be clampers and look how well that worked for them when they had your car, they could demand anything they wanted and get it.

The reason they said £100 is because people will pay it,

back in 2012 wheh the POFA came in the average claim was £40 and inflation would push that to less than £50 by now but as they cant clamp to earn an unwarranted fortune they have to fill their boots by other methods.