The climate changed and would continue to do so without humans - even reversing Human caused climate change:

- as I already replied to in https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?490590-The-Power-Of-Nature.Wild-Weather.Climate-Change.&p=5155116&viewfull=1#post5155116

What I, Steven Hawking, NASA, the UN and 97% of climate scientists actually claim is that humans are impacting it - severely - in a way that even threatens life on earth as it is, mainly through Co2.

https://www.livescience.com/58407-how-often-do-ice-ages-happen.html

" Over the past 800,000 years, carbon dioxide levels have fluctuated between about 170 parts per million and 280 ppm

That's a difference of only about 100 ppm between glacials and interglacials, Sandstrom said.

In May 2016, Antarctica carbon dioxide levels hit the high level of 400 ppm"

I said this:

"Climate has been changing for billions of years and all scientists agree 100%.

Fact.

Nothing new."

And I was asked to provide evidence of it via a link.

Now, possibly after a Google search, you're agreeing that "No reputable person I know of is claiming that (unchangeable climate)- I'm certainly not."

Well, considering that you're trying to convince people that climate never changed before we arrived...

That is quite simply a lie

Link anywhere in this thread where I, or anyone I linked, or anyone other than YOU have used that or claimed that.

Here, someone just sent me this after a similar discussion at work yesterday

But he's wrong of course.

Well, considering that you're trying to convince people that climate never changed before we arrived...

That is quite simply a lie

Link anywhere in this thread where I, or anyone I linked, or anyone other than YOU have used that or claimed that.

On same YouTube page of previous video, many other scientists (real scientists, not Instagram celebrities) destroy climate change and global warming arguments using the same data collected by organisations saying that we are the cause.

This for example, with a more practical approach:

That is quite simply a lie

 

Link anywhere in this thread where I, or anyone I linked, or anyone other than YOU have used that or claimed that.

You don't have to spell things out to mean them.

Example: I said to my boss: "I followed the procedure to the letter, so maybe you could double check with another executive to confirm it"

What I really meant: "you haven't got a clue about procedures because you were promoted via your father's rich circle of friends. So go away and let me carry on with my job"

Simple facts:

1. I didn't claim 100% of even climate scientists agree - there are a few, mainly using the tactics of you and the chap in the link, and religious fanatics of all persuasions, of simply denying overwhelming evidence

- as YOU, your linked person and the very few half way credible others who make these statements commonly do

- and they even say that climate science is a religion - despite their blatant fanaticism and denial of overwhelming evidence.

Unlike you I looked - He uses the same simple denial of the facts as you do - although better than you - he does give some already proven false 'arguments' and use already disproved 'facts'.

eg His claim that the multiple sources (NASA UN etc) and detailed figures regarding global warming are false.

2. YOU are the ONLY one here suggesting anyone is saying climate change didn't exist without humans.

I linked evidence showing that it has existed,

but of course, you claim people say things they simply did not say and do not believe, and simple try to say everyone else is wrong - without properly evidencing that claim.

YOU stated: "considering that you're trying to convince people that climate never changed before we arrived"

- Still waiting for anything to support your LIE there, and even that I or anyone I linked, or anyone other than YOU have stated that.

Answer that before expecting anyone to comment on already disproved one off very minority beliefs linked from youtube in the face of the world class organisations and science already linked

We could be living within a virtual reality game simulation, which is being played by aliens from another planet or possibly humans from a previous Earth generation, who are now living in a new dimension.

It is impossible to say that this could not be true.

Climate could therefore be a programmed part of such a game with the parameters altered as part of the game play.

Did I say "You're right" before?

If I didn't forgive me, but you're right.

Nobel price chap is a charlatan.

We could be living within a virtual reality game simulation, which is being played by aliens from another planet or possibly humans from a previous Earth generation, who are now living in a new dimension.

 

It is impossible to say that this could not be true.

 

Climate could therefore be a programmed part of such a game with the parameters altered as part of the game play.

 

LOL

I see you actually watched kings link and understood it unclebulgaria.

You gazzumped my response - but did it very well.

Did I say "You're right" before?

If I didn't forgive me, but you're right.

Nobel price chap is a charlatan.

ah you actually looked at the contents of your link and spotted it did you?

You surprise me - although I think charlatan is perhaps the wrong word.

His actual stance seems to be not so much that the figures from all those many many sources around the World from Greenpeace, through the UK's weather services, through NASA and the UN are wrong

- BUT that the figures from the many sources all these organisations use are actually all Falsified in a world wide conspiracy

Why didn't you use the self proclaimed Son of God Himself king?

or as my other half calls them in no attempt whatsoever to be politically correct - the Nutter Brigade.

going back a few posts where you berateme for sating radiation changes wavelength as it travele thruogh glass i have pasted part of your quoted "homework" so you can see that the point had already been addressed

From a physics standpoint, what warms a greenhouse is the same thing that warms the interior of a car on a sunny day. Shorter-wavelength infrared light enters the structure through the glass, and after these invisible but warm rays bounce around, they become longer-wavelength electromagnetic energy and tend to stay inside, getting absorbed by their surroundings. These surroundings, in a greenhouse, include the leafy surfaces of plants, which use sunlight to drive photosynthesis, or the creation of glucose (food) for energy.

Now do you wan me to tell you about how Striking Glass works or shall we be happy to say it is the work of pixies?

I try and enter honest discourse without resorting to name calling and rancour. I dont expect you to agree with me on the subject or there would be no point in posting anything but at least have the decency to accept that there are opinions that are opposite to yours without resorting to trying to belittle the commentator. This is why I say the entire subject of global warming/climate change has become a religion. If you want to point at those who disagree with your viewpoint and cry " heretic" then at least post a picture of you dressing the part and maybe Kingy can provide the soft cushions for our inquisition.

I still believe that there is no evidence of correlation between CO2 content of the atmosphere and global warming, there is a definite lag between CO2 and air temp change. Yes, that ignores the new measure of sea temp change but there are big problems with that as far as data goes, along with the invention of data that doesnt exist for mid atmospheric temps by NASA. Sea temop changes? El Nino is a recent phenominon caused by the closing of the seas between the pacific and atlantic by the mountain building around Panama. The med is still filling up after the breach of the land ridge between Gib and Africa some 20000 years ago. Oceans expanding because of the melting of the ice caps? nah, isostsasy take s care of that so expansion of the water itself by warming? yes but as we are at the end of a 11000 year old period of sudden change after the last ice age dont forget.

The there is the problem with the effects of climate change. Half the world will be winners in this lottery but that still doesn t address the more important problems man is causing by overpopulation that have no effect on the climate but the high priests of global warming want to conjoin.

I also like to remind people about the founding fathers of the Green Party and how they you will be hard pushed to find then listed on the interweb because of their original Nazi party membership and that cant be circulated under German privacy law. Slightly easier to see that when they got elected their links to the ruling elite of the GDR as they joined with a group from there in 1993 and resignations from the Bundestag when they were outed.

Nutter brigade has many branches but I dont see any of the climate change deniers demanding the execution of people who believe such thinsg and nor do I see David Icke asking for the extermination of peoples or nations as part of his manifesto and certainly dind take part in such activities in his former job. So if we are damned by the company we keep then my hell will be pleasantly warm but change over eternity rather than suffering the wild extremes of yours.

Just popping this into the mix.

Climate change: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

The world has seriously underestimated the amount of heat soaked up by our oceans over the past 25 years, researchers say.

Their study suggests that the seas have absorbed 60% more than previously thought.

They say it means the Earth is more sensitive to fossil fuel emissions than estimated.

This could make it much more difficult to keep global warming within safe levels this century.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46046067

Just popping this into the mix.

 

The world has seriously underestimated the amount of heat soaked up by our oceans over the past 25 years, researchers say.

 

Their study suggests that the seas have absorbed 60% more than previously thought.

 

They say it means the Earth is more sensitive to fossil fuel emissions than estimated.

 

This could make it much more difficult to keep global warming within safe levels this century.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46046067

Yes, and teh warmer the sea is, the less it is able to absorb CO2 as well as driving sea life to extinction including shelled sea life - shells are largely made of calcium CARBONate (CACO3)

g The there is the problem with the effects of climate change. Half the world will be winners in this lottery

Site formattings gone to crap and I cant correct it

"I try and enter honest discourse without resorting to name calling and rancour."

But isn't this the same tobyjugg2 who keeps trying to upset me and others (without succeeding) using offensive remarks on every other post?

Or is there another member with the same name?

"I try and enter honest discourse without resorting to name calling and rancour."

But isn't this the same tobyjugg2 who keeps trying to upset me and others (without succeeding) using offensive remarks on every other post?

Or is there another member with the same name?

LOL

Rather rich coming from someone who

self admittedly doesn't even look at others linked evidence,

self admittedly only here to laugh at the threads

and on the only occasion he posts a link (despite claimed discussions with 'real' scientists) links a 'its a worldwide conspiracy' nut

- intelligent in his field on quantum penetration of solids (!!!) undoubtedly - but very blatantly a conspiracy nut regarding climate science

- as king perhaps would have noticed if he's done more than googled a headline.

Now you folks could find a handful (I have - long ago) of superficially valid critiques of the established and massively supported science of climate change ...

... superficially valid

BUT

They almost exclusively critique the REAL science unjustifiably and then use exactly the ploys they accuse others of in their own 'justifications'

example

The critique of the tree ring evidence, which superficially critiqued that tree rings grow differently due to reasons other than co2 or temperature

- which is true as far as it goes

BUT

They not only ignore the simple facts that the legitimate evidence that they are critiquing had documented the potential issues and taken them into account

AND

to add insult to injury, the climate deniers then use inappropriately joined and misquoted parts of evidence to try to prove their case

- exactly what they were criticising.

The simple facts are that the original tree ring evidence which was used professionally with potential issues detailed and catered for, has turned out to be pretty darned accurate with the modern evidence which uses multiple sources to confirm evidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record_of_the_past_1000_years

When either of you two support your opinions with something that doesn't fall apart at first glance - if anything at all - then it might be worth considering.

Until then ....

Heres some real science

Just two years ago,

in 2016 Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM world wide For First Time in 4 Million Years

http://www.climatecentral.org/news/antarctica-co2-400-ppm-million-years-20451

yet only two years later - NOW

Carbon Dioxide: September 2018 409 ppm

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/carbon-dioxide/

Thats increasing at a truely frightening rate of about 1% rise per annum

Think its just a peak somewhere?

Think again - use the slider graphic down that page to see just how widespread.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c1/2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png/330px-2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png

http://www.johnenglander.net/chart-of-420000-year-history-temperature-co2-sea-level/

and this one post contains more REAL science and evidence than ALL your pairs posts put together. Let alone all the other links I have put in this thread - and that says it all really.

Want to be treated with some respect - then earn it.

Still waiting for you to retract those LIES you made about what I stated king....,

Nobody can have a two way discussion with you, so I say it again and then I'm out of your fantasyland:

YOU ARE RIGHT.

From a physics standpoint, what warms a greenhouse is the same thing that warms the interior of a car on a sunny day.

Yes

From a physics standpoint, ... Shorter-wavelength infrared light enters the structure through the glass, and after these invisible but warm rays bounce around, they become longer-wavelength electromagnetic energy and tend to stay inside, getting absorbed by their surroundings.

Nope - still wrong. Look again. You really are completely missing the basic concept.

It really would be difficult to make it any simpler than those two links I gave.

I could just list them, but that pretty much has been done in the prior links.

hint : infra red ('heat') is longer wavelength than visible light and is the result not the primary cause.

Think - what does the glass trap? What goes through? (mostly)

Understand this and then cascade that new understanding back through your understanding of climate change.

Now do you wan me to tell you about how Striking Glass works or shall we be happy to say it is the work of pixies?

Go for it

and while we are waiting

The positive aspects (for a while) for the UK (ignoring increasing numbers of droughts and flash floods year on year and massively increased wind and cloud marring the average 'warmer' climate )

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/nov/02/uk-heatwaves-lasting-twice-as-long-as-50-years-ago-met-office

Summary of the figures in simple terms (supporting science links higher in the thread)

http://www.johnenglander.net/chart-of-420000-year-history-temperature-co2-sea-level/

and the science backed graphic you really do need to see and try here (give the slider a go):

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/carbon-dioxide/

Note that all these compiled figures are the summary of many sources of information and scrupulous scientific examination- not selected bits as used by Human climate change deniers.

Ok, as words and pictures didnt do it for you

Watch BOTH these videos.

Some REAL latest information

Climate change could accelerate faster than predicted, new research into world's oceans warns

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-global-warming-ocean-temperature-heat-fossil-fuels-science-research-a8612796.html

The world’s oceans have absorbed far more heat than previously estimated, suggesting global warming and climate change could accelerate faster than predicted, according to new research.

If you aren't scared - then you darn well should be.

This is now due an update

Given that we are actually entering the solar minimum (temperature) (the approx 11 year cycle of the Suns activity and output)

http://www.auroraborealispage.net/solarmax.html

and despite it showing to be a very significant solar minimum (we should be in a mini ace age at the moment)

The last 4 Years have been the hottest on record and the constantly hottest since before humans existed as a species

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-climatechange-temperatures/last-year-was-fourth-hottest-on-record-outlook-sizzling-u-n-idUKKCN1PV20H

Given that, perhaps everyone should think what IS going to happen in about 2 years time when we are projected to be coming out of the Solar minimum and the suns output starts to increase rather htan decrease

... let alone if its current ongoing long period of lower activity above and beyond the 11 year cycle (an example of which resulted in the little ice age and the Thames freezing solid) starts to increase back up again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

As already reported here, the sea is warming far more rapidly than was projected, and even more than that updated projection

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/21/climate/greenland-ice.html?emc=edit_mbe_20190122&nl=morning-briefing-europe&nlid=8083393820190122&te=1

and with the accelerating melting of the ice caps everywhere, including the mountaintop sources of water for Billions

Military buildup in Arctic as melting ice reopens northern borders

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/24/military-buildup-in-arctic-as-melting-ice-reopens-northern-borders

Brexit may be little more than a catastrophe for a small group of Islands

But Human driven climate change is a growing catastrophe for the whole planet and all the people on it.