Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #41

    Default Re: NPN PCN - overstay Un-adopted Rd entrance to old St Edmunds Hosp Northampton

    From the IPC Code of Conduct:

    15. Grace Periods
    15.1 Drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to park and read any signs so
    they may make an informed decision as to whether or not to remain on the site.
    15.2 Drivers must be allowed a minimum period of 10 minutes to leave a site after a
    pre-paid or permitted period of parking has expired.
    15.3 The reference to 10 minutes in 15.2 above shall not apply where the period of pre-paid
    or permitted parking does not exceed 1 hour providing that the signage on the site
    makes it clear to the motorist, in a prominent font, that no grace period applies on that
    land.


    This, therefore, applies to "permitted parking", and you weren't permitted to park. However, you can still use it against them to support your position that a contract could not be created as you were not offered provision of parking. You were merely trespassing, which changes everything for them.


  2. #42
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    That is very interesting Shamrocker. Thanks. So they can try to charge me for trespassing, but not for parking in a no parking site, even if the road is part of the site referred to on signs?

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  3. #43
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    I know parking on DYLs on Private land is not an enforceable offence,
    but at least Tesco custoners would have more awareness that parking in this road is not allowed than they currently have from the existing signs.


  4. #44

    Default Re: NPN PCN - overstay Un-adopted Rd entrance to old St Edmunds Hosp Northampton

    there you go again..who says that parking is not permitted ??

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  5. #45

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    Only the landowner can pursue you for trespass, and would be for any damages you caused - which you didn't. This gets a frequent mention across the forum, particularly where forbidding signage is used.

    They will try to charge you for parking whatever the case. In respect of the point about 10 minutes grace - you would first push them to declare the exact breach they are claiming has led to the charge - then you twist them in any which way you can.

    All this is for possible court later - no point telling it to them now as it'll not make any difference. However, my point is along the lines that you can always raise the lack of observation period (breaching their IPC code)....which they'll likely state it's because parking is not permitted.

    Of course your response is that no permission equals no offer - the charge is an unlawful penalty.
    Their only recourse against you is for trespass.

    You need to read this stuff again and again for it to properly hit home
    - don't get hung up on stuff that doesn't matter,
    and let go of any ideas that the parking company have got it wrong.

    They don't care about that - they just want your cash, fairly or unfairly.


  6. #46
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    The signs say Private Land.
    No Parking at any time.
    The only problem is drivers don't see the signs and those that do can be excused for believing they refer to the building site and not the road!

    So where do I go from here?
    There is probably no point in telling them anything now as I am sure they are reading thus thread and know exactly what trump card I should use.

    In the meantime can I expect the games of the debt collecter to continue and do I just ignoreicon any further correspondance,
    including from their Solicitor?

    This I was planning to do and only react to a letter from the county courticon


  7. #47

    Default Re: NPN PCN - overstay Un-adopted Rd entrance to old St Edmunds Hosp Northampton

    only react to a letter from the county courticon

    that's what you should have done the minute you got the first letter
    99.9% of the issues you face are sadly of your own doing...

    appeals which are not properly worded and mention things that are totally unnecessary always open you up to letter tennis which is again totally pointless.

    sit on your hands this aint going nowhere.

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  8. #48
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    Default Re: NPN PCN - overstay Un-adopted Rd entrance to old St Edmunds Hosp Northampton

    I know now and as I previously stated on this thread I should not have gone through the NPM/IAS chocolate teapot/corrupt appeal process and just responded by disputing the PCN and telling them to take me to court.

    However I did so because I was wrongly advised to by CAB and Martin Lewis's MSE website, plus I was hoping to avoid wasting valuable county courticon time.

    I am where I am now and have to deal with it.
    In a way I hope this goes to court and I win my case, because this will make great front page headline in the Chronicle & Echo and then watch the flood of drivers who will try and claim their money back and also what is important, NPM and the site owner will have to change their signage and process of recording offences.

    BTW in my post regarding image times there was a third image on on a second page of the PDFicon they uploaded to the IAS. This had the date stamp 16:39:04 so the time recorded was an extra 5 seconds. Sorry for misleading you all!


  9. #49

    Default Re: NPN PCN - overstay Un-adopted Rd entrance to old St Edmunds Hosp Northampton

    You're learning - like most of us have.

    Regards only responding to the court - assuming you're not at the court stage yet (it's not been mentioned), then you should respond to a letter of claimicon, or any letter to that effect. Take advice on here first though.

    Regards MSE forum - I have scanned it myself at times, but unless you know good from bad, it would be easy to heed poor advice...or at least not squeeze the potential out of the strengths of your situation. 'Some' of the advice given on there is good though. As much as fighting these issues might not be worth the hassle to many, if you want to take proper control, you really need to read and read until you understand the complexities. Whatever you do, pay particular heed to the advice given by ericsbrother on here.


  10. #50
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    Had no letter of claimicon or from the county courticon.

    Last letters and emails have come from the debt collectoricon.

    Yes some advise from MSE is good, but what I took was poor.

    Out of interest what is your opinion of the Parking Cowboys?
    Obviously people on here are just names and I have no idea what qualifications or experience each of you have.

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  11. #51

    Default Re: NPN PCN - overstay Un-adopted Rd entrance to old St Edmunds Hosp Northampton

    My opinion of the parking cowboys? There is a legitimate need for them in some instances, but most of the time 'parking management' isn't their primary concern - it's to issue tickets and get cash out of us. They play on the ignorance both of the law and the civil court system to coerce the everyday person into paying up. Then you've got the role of the main players behind the scenes - it just stinks of one big racket. The DVLA are making a few quid out of it to boot.

    I have no qualifications, just experience of battling my own ticket and many hours of reading up on the subject. My advice is to just ignoreicon all 'threatograms' and enjoy your life until one resembles a letter before actionicon - likely from Gladstons or other solicitor firm. By all means, read up when you have time, but don't worry over it. Your situation is very easy to defend, and the regular contributors on here will guide you when doing do. It's not for a huge amount compared to many of the court claims posted on, for example, the consumer crediticon forum - so just use it as a valuable life experience. You'll feel liberated at the end of it!


  12. #52

    Default Re: NPN PCN - overstay Un-adopted Rd entrance to old St Edmunds Hosp Northampton

    Quote Originally Posted by parkingbill2018 View Post
    The council confirmed the road is un-adopted whilst the site is being developed.
    Did the council confirm that they had un-adopted all of Market Street, or just the part near the old hospital?


  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamrocker View Post
    My opinion of the parking cowboys? There is a legitimate need for them in some instances, but most of the time 'parking management' isn't their primary concern - it's to issue tickets and get cash out of us. They play on the ignorance both of the law and the civil court system to coerce the everyday person into paying up. Then you've got the role of the main players behind the scenes - it just stinks of one big racket. The DVLA are making a few quid out of it to boot.

    I have no qualifications, just experience of battling my own ticket and many hours of reading up on the subject. My advice is to just ignoreicon all 'threatograms' and enjoy your life until one resembles a letter before actionicon - likely from Gladstons or other solicitor firm. By all means, read up when you have time, but don't worry over it. Your situation is very easy to defend, and the regular contributors on here will guide you when doing do. It's not for a huge amount compared to many of the court claims posted on, for example, the consumer crediticon forum - so just use it as a valuable life experience. You'll feel liberated at the end of it!
    I meant the website Parking Cowboys, not the parking management companies! Sorry for not being clearer. Thanks for the advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raykay View Post
    Did the council confirm that they had un-adopted all of Market Street, or just the part near the old hospital?
    Just the part that is between Tescos and the old hospital.

    Just been up to the site.
    The signs are still the same as far as I can see although at 18.30 it was already dark and hard to see them.

    Despite this I saw NPM parking attendants were still operating.
    There were two guys standing against the derelict building wall and as soon as each driver parked alongside it, left their vehicle and walked over to Tesco, out came their camera phones and photos taken using flash.

    I was parked on the Tessco car park, which I notice has now been extended.
    I walked over the road with my shopping just after one of the guys had taken a photo.

    I think he knew I had seen him taking the photo and that the car was mine and he sheepishly said to me "OK mate". I just walked past him and the car then crossed back over to the Tesco's car park.

    So more PCNs will be in the post in the next couple of days and NPM will still insist they were clearly visible and that the drivers should have seen them.

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  14. #54

    Default Re: NPN PCN - overstay Un-adopted Rd entrance to old St Edmunds Hosp Northampton

    they don't care ....its a good money making exercise.
    99.9% will pay as they wrongly think they are fines and/or legitimate speculative invoices.

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  15. #55

    Default Re: NPN PCN - overstay Un-adopted Rd entrance to old St Edmunds Hosp Northampton

    Quote Originally Posted by parkingbill2018 View Post
    I meant the website Parking Cowboys, not the parking management companies! Sorry for not being clearer. Thanks forcthe advice.
    Sorry, I misunderstood. That site seems pretty good, so is worth a read. I used some of it for direction on certain aspects of my own WS. The parking Prankster's Blog is also a very good read.

    Anyway, I wouldn't fret any more over it until such time as there appears to be a claim looming. I don't think you'll have too much to worry about though.


  16. #56
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    If the new parking bill isnt going to stop this then seems it is going to be a complete and utter waste of time and our money!

    Quote Originally Posted by shamrocker View Post
    Sorry, I misunderstood. That site seems pretty good, so is worth a read. I used some of it for direction on certain aspects of my own WS. The parking Prankster's Blog is also a very good read.

    Anyway, I wouldn't fret any more over it until such time as there appears to be a claim looming. I don't think you'll have too much to worry about though.
    I thought it seemed to be informative too, but I didn't reach out directly to seek their help.

    If they are making a lot of easy money because of peoples ignorance why can't they be happy with that. But no they have to be greedy and chase every penny they can and in the process cause people misery and stress.

    The thing is,
    if they get exposed in the media,
    especially if they loose a court case,
    they will be shooting themselves in the foot!
    Please let this happen.
    I firmly believe what goes around, comes around.

    And if they had just dropped the charge I would have gone away quietly and not parked in the road ever again.
    In fact I don't shop at this Tesco's anymore.
    Tonight was the first time since January.

    I think they loose a lot of business because of this issue.


  17. #57

    Default Re: NPN PCN - overstay Un-adopted Rd entrance to old St Edmunds Hosp Northampton

    they are not interested in what you might do because although that may suit the landlord they want to make money and the only way they can is to invent a reason, whether that reason is legal or not.

    Now our advise may often say ignoreicon them but that doesnt mean ignoreicon them for ever, we always recommend responding to lbaicon's even if it is to tell them to get lost because that creates a paper trail and knocks on the head the claim that you didnt engage with them.

    With compaies who are members of the BPA it is often worth using their appeals process because although very limited in its remit you can get somewhere or at least cost them money.

    With the IPC it is NEVER worth appealing because their process is a kangaroo court (as seen on TV) and never properly considered.
    I cant say if MSE differentiates between the 2 but we certainly do.


  18. #58

    Default Re: NPN PCN - overstay Un-adopted Rd entrance to old St Edmunds Hosp Northampton

    Quote Originally Posted by parkingbill2018 View Post
    If they are making a lot of easy money because of peoples ignorance why can't they be happy with that. But no they have to be greedy and chase every penny they can and in the process cause people misery and stress. The thing is, if they get exposed in the media, especially if they loose a court case, they will be shooting themselves in the foot! Please let this happen. I firmly believe what goes around, comes around.
    Because word will get out and nobody will pay them a penny - ever. Their whole enterprise would collapse. There's a fair chance most defendants will pay up upon receiving a court claim, so it makes good commercial sense to them. They've also added further fees on top, so it's money for nothing basically.


  19. #59
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    This defendant isn't going to pay unless I am told to do so by a Judge so they are wasting their time and money,
    as I have already told them and the debt recovery company.

    And when I win my case my Father,
    who has plenty of time on his hands,
    will certainly be spreading the word big time!

    Just seen the new red fencing and current sign location of this site can be seen on google, so you can all bee how inadequate they are by virtually entering and going around the un-adopted road.

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.24...7i16384!8i8192

    Luckily at the time there were no cars parked alongside the derelict building on the right as you enter the road, although I know google blank out car number plates.


  20. #60

    Default Re: NPN PCN - overstay Un-adopted Rd entrance to old St Edmunds Hosp Northampton

    now to me it looks as though the white lines were painted by the council at the same time as the other lane markings.
    this brings into play the rather dubious decision of Dawood v Camden so even if private land it is effectively under council control and they dont prohibit parking.

    In other words the land may be private but the road isnt private land as far as this matter goes.
    Bit like me ticketing you for parking outside my house.

    I own the wall my dodgy sign is stuck to but it doesnt apply to the actual tarmac.
    Not necessarily convincing on its own but it is another nail in their coffin

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