there is a new sign so we need to see that as well. This is laid out on a lot of other threads and surely common sense would dictate that you took a picture whilst there as it is different to the one you have already posted up.

Also your answers to the questions dont answer them, we need DATES and we need to see the phots taken by the parking attendant with your details redacted. Seeing the entire NTK would be better as very often they arent even good enough to create any liability as they dont contain the necessary information adn key phrases. If they get that wrong the fact you appealed wont matter as it isnt a legal demand so they cant progress it and get anywhere.

We wnat to help but so far it is like pulling teeth, try and be a bit more proactive.

There is no new sign as far as I know.

There is just new fencing put up, same signs.

I will visit the site and confirm this and report back.

The one I posted here is the one uploaded to the IAS as evidence.

Someone mentioned on here about a 10 minute grace period.

I don't see that is relevant for a NO PARKING area.

Yes there may be grace time on a parking time paid for to allow for difference in peoples time devices, which may be 10 minutes, although I read on I think this forum NPM gives 5 minutes.

Sorry you think getting information is like pulling teeth.

I do have a full time demanding job were I have to work long hours and this business of posting stuff in public on the internet is new to me so I am therefore treading cautiously.

Sorry. I see other threads on this subject were people have been requested to post document etc. and that was the end of the thread (no documents posted)!

I appreciate you want to help but I would prefer to PM anyone with the documents required.

If you want to help is that not acceptable?

I certainly intend to go public (media) in a big way if this company does not drop this charge or takes me to court and I have made that clear to them and also the site owner.

My Father also will start a petition to get the signage at this site improved and legal to remove any future ambiguity.

Vehicle images as requested, as supplied to the IAS

pix2.pdf

Ref your post #29, there's rarely a need to send documents by PM. If you redact out things like names and addresses [yours, not the PPC] then you'll be no different to all the other threads on here.

HB

Sorry for the delay.

I hope you now have all you need to offer useful advice that will help if this goes to court or I get nasty letters from the Debt Collector or their Solicitor.

I suppose this is all good preparation for writing to my local MP and the media if I have to and I was thinking of contacting Sir Parking Bill himself, even though I am not in his constituency.

Appeals & decisions.pdf

ok so where is their NTK with the pix THEY took please

ive hidden the ntk dispite your worry about you being identified by popping it up

you left the PCN number in the text.....opps.

can we have that as ONE multipage PDF please full page and both sides

so we can zoom

don't cut the page down in size to hide the bottom.

just redact your details. or anything that can id you

we need to see all their text and the layout.

dx

Yes I noticed, but I am sure from dates and times on photos etc they can work that out anyway!

Here are both sides of the PCN in one PDF as requested.

PCN Both Sides Now.pdf

have we got the exact timings here already.

the time stamp on the pix is too pixalated.

Times 16:38:46 and 16:38:59

so you were there for 1 min not 10?

how are they proving how long you were /weren't parked for?

It doesnt matter how long I was there.

I don't know why this thread included overstay in the title.

I did not overstay a period that I had paid for or a period you are allowed to stay free.

The road is Private and there is No Parking, although I and dozens of drivers every day are unaware because of the poor signage (e.g. no sign as you enter the road. I have a receipt from Tescos that is within 10 minutes from the time stamp, but I have no idea how quickly the photo was taken.

I would see immediately as I only bought a few items from the store, hence why I said 10 minutes.

There is no grace period so why do they have to prove how long I was there or have I missed something.

Anyway is £100 a fair charge for 10 minutes and what hardship and issues does it cause the site owner having cars park in the road for a few minutes.

Yes if they park on the site, including their car park, but not the road.

If it is such a big deal they should errect correct signs and paint double yellow lines then there can be no argument!!!

They obviously want to cause confusion to make money from their excessive parking charges.

in post 1 you said...

I parked for less than 10 minutes behind a car that was already there and didn’t think anymore of this

DYL's mean nothing on private land..purely tarmac Graffiti...

its not the site owner that's trying to fleece you.

the overstay is important to be in the title because there IS a general rule that says a minimum of 10 mins..but no max.

you didn't get a windscreen ticket so they had to send the NTK within 14 days which they did.

but they must also prove how long you were there, they cant so sorry sir it was less than 10mins..PROVE otherwise... they can't...fallen in yet...??

From the IPC Code of Conduct:

15. Grace Periods

15.1 Drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to park and read any signs so

they may make an informed decision as to whether or not to remain on the site.

15.2 Drivers must be allowed a minimum period of 10 minutes to leave a site after a

pre-paid or permitted period of parking has expired.

15.3 The reference to 10 minutes in 15.2 above shall not apply where the period of pre-paid

or permitted parking does not exceed 1 hour providing that the signage on the site

makes it clear to the motorist, in a prominent font, that no grace period applies on that

land.

This, therefore, applies to "permitted parking", and you weren't permitted to park. However, you can still use it against them to support your position that a contract could not be created as you were not offered provision of parking. You were merely trespassing, which changes everything for them.

That is very interesting Shamrocker. Thanks. So they can try to charge me for trespassing, but not for parking in a no parking site, even if the road is part of the site referred to on signs?

I know parking on DYLs on Private land is not an enforceable offence,

but at least Tesco custoners would have more awareness that parking in this road is not allowed than they currently have from the existing signs.

there you go again..who says that parking is not permitted ??

Only the landowner can pursue you for trespass, and would be for any damages you caused - which you didn't. This gets a frequent mention across the forum, particularly where forbidding signage is used.

They will try to charge you for parking whatever the case. In respect of the point about 10 minutes grace - you would first push them to declare the exact breach they are claiming has led to the charge - then you twist them in any which way you can.

All this is for possible court later - no point telling it to them now as it'll not make any difference. However, my point is along the lines that you can always raise the lack of observation period (breaching their IPC code)....which they'll likely state it's because parking is not permitted.

Of course your response is that no permission equals no offer - the charge is an unlawful penalty.

Their only recourse against you is for trespass.

You need to read this stuff again and again for it to properly hit home

- don't get hung up on stuff that doesn't matter,

and let go of any ideas that the parking company have got it wrong.

They don't care about that - they just want your cash, fairly or unfairly.

The signs say Private Land.

No Parking at any time.

The only problem is drivers don't see the signs and those that do can be excused for believing they refer to the building site and not the road!

So where do I go from here?

There is probably no point in telling them anything now as I am sure they are reading thus thread and know exactly what trump card I should use.

In the meantime can I expect the games of the debt collecter to continue and do I just ignore any further correspondance,

including from their Solicitor?

This I was planning to do and only react to a letter from the County Court

only react to a letter from the county court

that's what you should have done the minute you got the first letter

99.9% of the issues you face are sadly of your own doing...

appeals which are not properly worded and mention things that are totally unnecessary always open you up to letter tennis which is again totally pointless.

sit on your hands this aint going nowhere.

I know now and as I previously stated on this thread I should not have gone through the NPM/IAS chocolate teapot/corrupt appeal process and just responded by disputing the PCN and telling them to take me to court.

However I did so because I was wrongly advised to by CAB and Martin Lewis's MSE website, plus I was hoping to avoid wasting valuable County Court time.

I am where I am now and have to deal with it.

In a way I hope this goes to court and I win my case, because this will make great front page headline in the Chronicle & Echo and then watch the flood of drivers who will try and claim their money back and also what is important, NPM and the site owner will have to change their signage and process of recording offences.

BTW in my post regarding image times there was a third image on on a second page of the PDF they uploaded to the IAS. This had the date stamp 16:39:04 so the time recorded was an extra 5 seconds. Sorry for misleading you all!

You're learning - like most of us have.

Regards only responding to the court - assuming you're not at the court stage yet (it's not been mentioned), then you should respond to a Letter of Claim, or any letter to that effect. Take advice on here first though.

Regards MSE forum - I have scanned it myself at times, but unless you know good from bad, it would be easy to heed poor advice...or at least not squeeze the potential out of the strengths of your situation. 'Some' of the advice given on there is good though. As much as fighting these issues might not be worth the hassle to many, if you want to take proper control, you really need to read and read until you understand the complexities. Whatever you do, pay particular heed to the advice given by ericsbrother on here.

Had no Letter of Claim or from the County Court.

Last letters and emails have come from the debt collector.

Yes some advise from MSE is good, but what I took was poor.

Out of interest what is your opinion of the Parking Cowboys?

Obviously people on here are just names and I have no idea what qualifications or experience each of you have.

My opinion of the parking cowboys? There is a legitimate need for them in some instances, but most of the time 'parking management' isn't their primary concern - it's to issue tickets and get cash out of us. They play on the ignorance both of the law and the civil court system to coerce the everyday person into paying up. Then you've got the role of the main players behind the scenes - it just stinks of one big racket. The DVLA are making a few quid out of it to boot.

I have no qualifications, just experience of battling my own ticket and many hours of reading up on the subject. My advice is to just ignore all 'threatograms' and enjoy your life until one resembles a letter before action - likely from Gladstons or other solicitor firm. By all means, read up when you have time, but don't worry over it. Your situation is very easy to defend, and the regular contributors on here will guide you when doing do. It's not for a huge amount compared to many of the court claims posted on, for example, the consumer credit forum - so just use it as a valuable life experience. You'll feel liberated at the end of it!

The council confirmed the road is un-adopted whilst the site is being developed.

Did the council confirm that they had un-adopted all of Market Street, or just the part near the old hospital?

My opinion of the parking cowboys? There is a legitimate need for them in some instances, but most of the time 'parking management' isn't their primary concern - it's to issue tickets and get cash out of us. They play on the ignorance both of the law and the civil court system to coerce the everyday person into paying up. Then you've got the role of the main players behind the scenes - it just stinks of one big racket. The DVLA are making a few quid out of it to boot.

 

I have no qualifications, just experience of battling my own ticket and many hours of reading up on the subject. My advice is to just ignore all 'threatograms' and enjoy your life until one resembles a letter before action - likely from Gladstons or other solicitor firm. By all means, read up when you have time, but don't worry over it. Your situation is very easy to defend, and the regular contributors on here will guide you when doing do. It's not for a huge amount compared to many of the court claims posted on, for example, the consumer credit forum - so just use it as a valuable life experience. You'll feel liberated at the end of it!

I meant the website Parking Cowboys, not the parking management companies! Sorry for not being clearer. Thanks for the advice.

Did the council confirm that they had un-adopted all of Market Street, or just the part near the old hospital?

Just the part that is between Tescos and the old hospital.

Just been up to the site.

The signs are still the same as far as I can see although at 18.30 it was already dark and hard to see them.

Despite this I saw NPM parking attendants were still operating.

There were two guys standing against the derelict building wall and as soon as each driver parked alongside it, left their vehicle and walked over to Tesco, out came their camera phones and photos taken using flash.

I was parked on the Tessco car park, which I notice has now been extended.

I walked over the road with my shopping just after one of the guys had taken a photo.

I think he knew I had seen him taking the photo and that the car was mine and he sheepishly said to me "OK mate". I just walked past him and the car then crossed back over to the Tesco's car park.

So more PCNs will be in the post in the next couple of days and NPM will still insist they were clearly visible and that the drivers should have seen them.