Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #41
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Thanks @dx100uk
    Ok Iíll wait to submit my defence. Donít like leaving it to the last day though.
    Should I send the letter to CEL now or at the same time as defence?
    Regards


  2. #42

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    what you like or don't is immaterial this is a court claim and should be deal with in the correct manner.

    as for the letter send it now

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  3. #43
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Ok will do.
    Thanks


  4. #44
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Hi @ericsbrother

    What format should I expect to see the response for the CPR?
    I've not received anything yet.
    Do I get any email/letter notifications for the next steps on MCOL?

    I've put the following in a letter to CEL.
    ----
    The claimant has failed to follow the Civil Procedureicon rules by failing to issue a letter before actionicon and the claim is too vague to see what the claim is actually for.

    The claimant has also failed to show who is issuing this claim as they have stated that CEL are the legal representative of the claimant but haven’t stated who that is when signing the form.

    The defendant states that this is not an error but an abuse of process and therefore requests that the claim be summarily dismissed under CPR 3.4 and states that it is likely to fail anyway.
    ----

    Is there anything else I need to do before 12th Nov?

    Thanks Al


  5. #45

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    read your thread post 40

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  6. #46

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    you had better start reading the advice more carefully,
    at no point has anyone said write to CEL,

    by the 12th of this month you write your outline defence to the COURT and you may include a bit saying you do not believe they have the authority from the landowner etc as per the wording of your CPR 31.14 request because they havent sent this to you.

    You had also better read a load more threads on parking in general and court cases in particular so you dont snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by failing to read the paperwork the COURT sends you.

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  7. #47
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Hi @ericsbrother

    Sorry I'm confused, and anxious.

    In post 41 - as response to my questions in post 40
    (following your suggestion from a previous post 39, added below),
    @dx100uk said "as for point 3 yes send that in a letter to CEL ref your case number."

    So should I not send it? it is very confusing

    I was meant to have posted it today, but luckily got busy and couldn't do it.

    Thanks

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  8. #48
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericsbrother View Post
    for the last part put that in a letetr as well and send it separately if you are using MCOL
    @ericsbrother - this post, where you suggest putting in a separate letter - who do I send this to? Thanks


  9. #49

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    to the court
    but I read that wrong too.
    I know in the past we have written to the PPC directly when we've seen these abuses of due process giving them the chance to drop the claim...but obv things have moved on or its not appropriate to CEL as we know people that shouldn't be signing as a solicitor ARE doing so.
    you'd have to read up on the history of CEL to understand this one.

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  10. #50
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    hi @dx100uk
    The letter to court - is that the response pack I need to fill in from the N9B claim formicon page 4 titled "Defence and Counterclaim (specified amount)" ? OR do I just send it as a plain letter with Claim reference mentioned?

    I've been reading up on CEL and country court claims - both on CAGicon and pepipoo and other sites - and I'm just getting more confused
    I will start to draft up a full defence this weekend.
    Thanks

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  11. #51

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    just type no need for reply with quote
    makes the thread twice as long to scroll thru...17 unnecessary quotes of previous posts removed.

    you write to the court if you wish.

    your defence is as post 39....

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  12. #52

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    if you have used mcol you need to send a separate letter to the court about their abuse of process as there isnt a place where you can do this online.

    As this was part of an answer that states what you need to send to court it shouldnt be that confusing.

    It may not get read until the time of the hearing but at least it will be there in the judges bundle.

    Now if you had sent this to CEL what good would it do?
    read everything carefully and dont make assumptions.

    You wont be writing to CEL at all from now until you have to exchange documents and it is unlikley to actually get that far as I would bet on them not paying the allocation fee once you have submitted an outline defence.

    If you are still unsure of what to say in that then we will offer a short version suitabel for your case that is similar to all of the others apart from saying the contrcat is with another party

    also ask the DVLA who obtained your keeper details? This has to be doen in writing and soon as they l;ike to obfuscate on this as they are in big trouble over their lax quality control for access under KADOE contracts.

    Now if starpark say you owe CEL for the breach who has the right to ask for your details as startpark have no contract to breach but CEL have no cause as no keeper liability can exist to an uninterested third party.


  13. #53
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    I've submitted my defence (before the deadline), and emailed DVLA for the details of who requested my registration details and what reasonable cause they cited.
    Thanks again.


  14. #54
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Hi

    I've received the response from DVLA and a pack of papers from CEL.
    I've attached both the DVLA and the CEL letters with personal info removed.

    The CEL letter states the following:
    We refer to your Subject access requesticon. Please find attached copies of all correspondence sent to you, including the images of your vehicle taken by our ANPR cameras. Please note that the requirements for disclosure under CPR 31 do not apply to claims on the small claimsicon track such as this one (CPR 31.1(2)).

    The DVLA letters states that

    The DVLA considers the allegation that the terms and conditions of private parking as reasonable cause and has provided the data to allow the landowner and their agent to pursue their legal rights.

    CEL made an electronic request which would've got an automatic response.

    The following were in the pack from CEL (please let me know which of these you would need to see a copy of, and I can scan those as well)


    1. the first PCN letter (I presume this is the NTK) dated 18/9/17 Amount says £100, but says reduced to £60.00 if paid within 14 days),
    2. the second (reminder letter) dated 19/10/17 (£100),
    3. ANPR photos of the car entering and exiting the car park,
    4. CEL letter threatening to go to DCAicon dated 14/3/18 amount £140 (original charge £100 + additional costs)
    5. ZZPS letter 1 - dated 19/4/18 (£140+£60)
    6. ZZPS letter 2 - dated 4/5/18 (£140+£60) . this was followed by the letters from the solicitors QDR -there were a couple of these (but CEL have not included these).
    7. CEL letter quoting "Pre Action Conduct and Protocol" for debt claims, then stating that if debt is not paid in 30 day they would issue CCJ, dated 24/8/18
    8. claim formicon


    Q1. I still don't know who the owner of the car park is and whether they have a contract with CEL or Star park. What do I do now?

    Q2. Why have not included the phone callicon if it was a SARs request?

    Thanks for all your help in advance.

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  15. #55

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    the claim is not allocated to track yet so how can CEL state its small claimsicon, they are only guessing
    CPR 31:14icon DOES apply

    is the 1st letter entitled NTK and has 2 pix in/out ….time and dated
    scan it up
    you would of needed to have received this within 14 days of the 'offence' in sept..did you?

    and the anpr pix please

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  16. #56
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Hi @dx100uk ,
    The first letter does have pics in and out, but does not say 'Notice to Keeper' on it, it says 'parking chargeicon Notice'. It is dated 18/09/17 and is within 14 days of incident (7/9/17).
    I've attached the scanned docs as requested.

    Thanks

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  17. #57

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    ask croydon council planning deptwho owns the land or alternately ask the Valuations Agency. If you choose the latter ask about whether CEL or start park pay business rates on the land. The thought of a few extra quid will get croydon councils blood pumping


  18. #58
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Hi @ericsbrother
    1. Is the first letter the NTK?

    I've got a response for the letter I sent to county courticon today stating point 3 as below; it basically says I need to apply for the claim to be struck out using the N244icon application form (which they attached) or alternatively dispute the claim by filing a defence and /or counterclaim.

    2. I've filed Defence - so do I need to submit this N244icon form to strike out the claim?
    ----
    The claimant has failed to follow the Civil Procedureicon rules by failing to issue a letter before actionicon and the claim is too vague to see what the claim is actually for.

    The claimant has also failed to show who is issuing this claim as they have stated that CEL are the legal representative of the claimant but haven’t stated who that is when signing the form.

    The defendant states that this is not an error but an abuse of process and therefore requests that the claim be summarily dismissed under CPR 3.4 and states that it is likely to fail anyway.
    ----

    I've sent the email to the Croydon Valuations Agency last weekend - got an automatic response from them. But nothing answering my query yet. I've done a search on the Planning register and found an entry as attached, no history though. Also done a search on HMLR and I've not seen an entry for the actual car park - but could purchase a copy of the Plan and Registration for the title that I suspect is the property.

    3. What is my next step once I get some information about the actual owner for this car park?
    4. the letter from the County Court stating they confirm they've received my defence states that the claimant (CEL) need to respond in 28days. Will I get notified when this happens - and how (email/letter/MCOL update)?

    Thanks again for all of yours and Dx's help.

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  19. #59

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    I would assume the N244icon attracts the £255 so don't do that
    Just leave so it gets autostayed I doubt CEL will do anything now?

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  20. #60

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    dont pay for a strike out, just include a separate letter with anything you send to court and it will be added to the file. It may get read before a hearing and you get your way without having to attend anything. My CEL claim got to a case management hearing and they were given a real drubbing for a multitude of reasons, one being claiming solicitors costs for someone who wasnt a solicitor, hence me asking who signs their claim forms as Ashley hasnt given up on this attempt to diddle an extra cash amount out of peopel even though his last lawywer was struck off for allowing his name to be used in this way. Courts get wise to repeated abuses of process and some judges have grown intolerant to it so just write and hope. the worst that will happen is that it will get read as the first thing at a hearing and the CEKL will ahve to answer before they get to make their case.

    also there is no Croydon Valuations Agency, it is a government agency. Croydon have a section dealing with business rates who have the same interests.

    when you know who owns the land you will be able to state that you dotn belive that CEL have a contract with the landowner and therefore have no "locus standi" or right to make a claim. If they produce a contract then you go through it with a sine toothed comb as the parking sign say Star park, not CEL and it is unlikely the landowner has allowed this transfer of agency.

    the court will write to you if CEL do pay up but keep an eye on your MCOL console regarding the time and what has happened. If they dotn pay up then you ask for the claim to be stayed (it will eventualy) but make the point that they do this all the time and it is an abuse of process by making untrue claims as a method of frightening peopel into aopying up rather than for the lawful recovery of mone actually owed.

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