Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #21

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    the signage doesnt mention paying them £100 for not obeying their conditions offered in the big sign so there is no damages they cna claim for breaching the supposed conditions.

    They are damned by their own signage so wont want to actually have to turn up at Croydon CC and thus rely on bullying you into paying up beforehand because if they attend you will beat them and get your expenses for the day out to boot.

    So the simplest defence will be there was no offer of a contract so the claimant has no cause for action against the defendant.

    CEL WILL lie and may even produce mock ups of non-existent signs so make sure you have pictires of everything.
    Do not argue or fret over the actual missed parking payment,
    as already said,
    there isnt a contract here that even states what you are supposed to pay and the parking meter is the only actual offer of terms so if you didnt use it you cant be held to its terms.

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  2. #22
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    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Thanks @ericsbrother
    On the signage for Phone and Pay
    - under the Terms and Conditions, it does talk about the £100.00 if the parking is not paid in 10 minutes of parking
    - although in very small writing.

    TBH I didn’t even see that until day before when I went to take the picture!
    I can’t correct my previous post where I thought it was 30 minutes.

    Does this cause a problem for my Defence?
    Thanks again.


  3. #23

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    we need to see everything, not just secondhand snippets.
    As I have said, they will produce false documents and computer mock ups of signs that dont exist so we need to see what is there and see it all in clear detail as well as getting an indication of where the signs are relative to the entrance.

    we know half of the story and that is enough to kill a claim but we need to be able to counter the lies.


  4. #24

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    and it doesn't? say 10 mins... it must say a minimum of 10 mins..if not they've shot themselves in the foot there.

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  5. #25
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    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Sorry I did attach the signage pics but only just noticed that one of them was not clear enough. Iíve attached another clearer one of the Phone and Pay sign.

    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #26

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    as with many of the CEL claims the managers of the car park are starpark and not CEL.
    That means the agreement with the landowner must allow them to give third party rights and I bet they dont.

    So no contract with CEL or if you accept that this sign assigns the right to CEL to collect money then starpark have no rights to offer you anything so the sign isnt a contract.

    Slightly confusing but it is about agency
    - the right of third parties to force an interest on the deal.

    Parking co's have tried this on before but have always failed.
    Even companies with the same named owner cant win let alone companies that have their true ownership hidden and no connection evident via their registration at companies house.

    In your case the CPR 31.14 request becomes more of an issue when they dont respond as you can state that they have no locus standi and tht the signage is misleading and thus an unfair contract so the whole lot is void


  7. #27
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    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post
    and it doesn't? say 10 mins... it must say a minimum of 10 mins..if not they've shot themselves in the foot there.
    Sorry I’m not sure I understood. The sign says “... within 10 minutes “ is that not legal?
    Also do you need more pictures of the car park? I can get them tomorrow.


  8. #28

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    not within the guidelines they must adhere too..but that doesn't usually stop them trying to fleece the unaware punter=99.9% of the population.

    you have a minimum of 10mins …

    use our search CAGicon box of the top red toolbar
    type in

    10 mins

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  9. #29

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    if there is a parking meter or signs that say anything else then we need to see them. More of the same doesnt change things but do check carefully


  10. #30
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    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    No there is no parking meter,
    it’s a small car park 11 spaces total operated by Star park.

    Only option to pay is by phone (call number on the board) or via their app and registering your details.

    There are a total of 4 boards.
    3 of them are Phone&Pay purple ones, and 1 white one which I’ve uploaded a photo of.

    I’ll check again today and take a few more pics.
    I’ve sent the CPR 3114 to CEL.
    Thanks again.


  11. #31

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    can we see the back of the N1 form where it is signed by the claimant or their representative?
    this is important as CEL have a habit of not doing this correctly and that makes the claim invalid or at least gets then clobbered for up to 50% of the amount they can get if they are successful.

    As courts are overwhelmed by claims from parking companies something has to give and I see that the courts will come down on them because the claims are mostly filed by lawyers who have no excuse fro getting it wrong.

    We will advise what to say in your later request for summary dismissal of the claim after we get past this first hurdle

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  12. #32
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    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    @ericsbrother , @dx100uk ,

    I've scanned and redacted the whole claim formicon - all 4 sheets (8 pages) - there is nothing additional I could find apart from the small section on the front page which I had uploaded a while back - but you may be able to spot something.


    I've also attached more car park pics - this one has all the signs, and the 2 close ups for the signs at the entrance.

    Thanks for all your help and guidance.

    Attached Files Attached Files
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  13. #33

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    not signed then just typed...clever of them hides who is doing it

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  14. #34

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    OK the claim formicon has been improperly signed as it doesnt have a name on it and also states it is signed by claimants legal representative so should be the name of a SRA regulated solicitor.

    Now this is somehting to make a noise about as you might get the claim chucked out and the they will be told to start again if you are lucky.
    When does your outline defence have to be in by?

    there are new rules governing this and a company that files loads of claims shouldnt be forgiven for doing it wrong but that relies on a judge seeing all the paperwork well before time and often it is just the adminicon people who sort things out and they may not bring it to the attention of the judge.

    However, still worth putting a bit in your defence or even a separate letter to go with it asking for a summary dismissal of the claim on procedural grounds ( this and too vague a claim)

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  15. #35
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    Default

    Hi @ericsbrother
    My claim date is 11/10/18, I guess within 33 days of that means before 13/11/18?
    Are there templates for the defence I can use? Not sure how to start/open my statement.
    Thanks
    Al

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  16. #36

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    twill be the 12th by 4pm.

    twill be the std 3 line defence in almost all PPC claimformicon threads here with a bit added re above.

    as long as the CPR went off … your ok for now but no harm in reading up.

    dx

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  17. #37

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    as said earlier, all you need at this juncture is an outline defence so bullet points on why you dont owe them money, not essays about the detail of each point, that come later.

    I would go with a variation on the usual lack of contract and say:

    1. The claimant has no locus standi in this matter, the contract to park is with a different company.

    2. the main signage at the site is not an offer of a contract but an invitation to treat and the defendant denies that there was an agreed contract to breach.

    3. The claimant has failed to follow the Civil Procedureicon rules by failing to issue a letter before actionicon and the claim is too vague to see what the claim is actually for.

    The claimant has also failed to show who is issuing this claim as they have stated that CEL are the legal representative of the claimant but havent stated who that is when signing the form.

    The defendant states that this is not an error but an abuse of process and therefore requests that the claim be summarily dismissed under CPR 3.4 and states that it is likely to fail anyway

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  18. #38

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    for the last part put that in a letetr as well and send it separately if you are using MCOL


  19. #39
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    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Hi @ericsbrother
    This is what I have in the MCOL Defence particulars section:

    The defendant states the following:

    1. The claimant has no locus standi in this matter, the contract to park is with a different company.

    2. the main signage at the site is not an offer of a contract but an invitation to treat and the defendant denies that there was an agreed contract to breach.

    3. The claimant has failed to follow the Civil Procedureicon rules by failing to issue a letter before actionicon and the claim is too vague to see what the claim is actually for. The claimant has also failed to show who is issuing this claim as they have stated that CEL are the legal representative of the claimant but haven't stated who that is when signing the form.

    The defendant states that this is not an error but an abuse of process and therefore requests that the claim be summarily dismissed under CPR 3.4 and
    states that it is likely to fail anyway


    Is that enough?
    Do I need to state that I admit to being the keeper of the vehicle etc.. (other points in the template)?

    I sent the CPR3114 on 18th and it was signed for on 19th Oct by Regus (believe they are the building maintenance/reception).

    You mentioned putting the last line in a separate letter.
    Did you mean point 3?
    And who/where do I send this to?
    CEL?
    Thanks

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  20. #40

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    that will do fine. don't add anything..thats for later

    pers I wouldn't file that yet you are weeks away from needing to do it. [12th November by 4pm]
    they could respond to your CPR if you file early now and that might harm you in the long run as you've already filed a defence
    they could also see you've done it early on mcol and then mess you around when theres nowt you can do about it till the WS stage if it gets that far.

    as for point 3 yes send that in a letter to CEL ref your case number.

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