Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #1
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    Default CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Hi,

    I'm looking for some advice on a PCN that was issued last year 07/09/2017 for parking at Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    I did park there on the 7th September, and didn't make the payment as I think my phone had issues (or I forgot) and called up the number the next day when I remembered on the PaybyPhone site/board to ask how I can pay for the previous day as when I checked the website I couldn't find any other contact number.
    The operator told me she couldn't help me as there was no mechanism to make a back dated payment.
    I've parked in the same car park multiple times and always made the payment.

    When the first letter came,
    I remember vaguely I called to say I tried to make the payment the next day,
    but they wouldn't have any of it,
    and said the notice in the car park says clearly that the payment needs to be made within 30 minutes of parking.

    I tried appealing on the call saying I had tried to make the payment the next day and explained I'm more than happy to pay the parking fee with an appropriate interest for it but the fine of 60.00 seems a bit steep, but they didn't budge.
    I tried to search up the actual legal owners of the car park, but couldn't find any details for them.

    Subsequently,
    I got a few letters from Civil Enforcement where the money owed kept going up,
    but after trolling through a few sites which recommended ignoring these letters, that's what I did.

    Then I got a few letters from ZZPS which had threatening tones (and amount kept increasing, all of which I threw away) and then got a couple of letters from QDR solicitors, the last one dated 25/5/2018 threatening stated they would obtain a CCJ, which I kept.
    I didn't do anything, as after looking up similar letters the general advice seemed to be to ignoreicon them.

    Last week I got a claim formicon from county courticon Business Centre, Northampton dated 11/10/2018 which looks very legitimate as it has the county court stamp (albeit a bit faint).
    The amount now states 331.59!!
    Feel like I should've just paid the 60.00 last year. It seems a bit unjust that a 5.00 parking fee should end up having such a huge fine!!

    What should I do?
    Any help will be greatly appreciated.
    I've attached the first page of the claim form (it has 4 pages in total with page 2 being a 'Response Pack',
    page 3 is "Admission (specified amount)"
    - lots of sub-sections and is double sided ending with a declaration.

    Page 4 is "Defence and Counterclaim (specified amount)"
    - also double sided with lots of sections.

    I've also attached a scanned copy of the letter from QDR solicitors.

    Please help me.. feeling very anxious now!
    Kind regards
    Al

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    The experts will be on in the morning, but in the meantime have a look through other threads where court proceedings have begun to get a feel of what to do.

    I know you can register on the MCOL website that you oppose the claim which buys you time to prepare a defence and start to undermine these charlatans.

    There are no guarantees of course, but most of the time the parking companies can't be bothered to prepare a proper legal case because they don't need to, unfortunately most of the time people are frightened of the legal process and give in … which means that a decently-defended case wins most of the time! Go for it!


  3. #3
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    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Thanks @FTMDave - I've started doing some research, but not sure whether to Defend fully and counter claim or admit to part.


  4. #4

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    welcome to the forum BTW!

    You need to defend all.

    DX and ericsbrother will likely look in in due course, so sit tight. Just be prepared to provide all information requested.


  5. #5

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    we don't need to see the claimformicon - we know what they look like
    ive taken that down and the other uploads and tidied the thread of now unnecessary posts.
    if you could please scan up the NTK to PDFicon read uploadicon that would be good to see

    for now the important bit is please complete click the link below and paste the Q's of the relevant section along with adding your answers at the end of each one please back to this thread
    https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.u...ed-Aug-2016***

    one point...it is NOT A FINE..nowhere if you look carefully does any of the paperwork use that word...….

    its a speculative invoice and they've now issued a speculative claim hoping for a knee jerk payment or you continuing the [wrong] route of ignoring that too
    [which you should never now do with any speculative invoices since 2012!!)

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
    it makes a thread twice as long to scroll through..save data costs
    If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread
    DX
    RIP Martin3030

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    You say that you are tempted to call them the day afterwards and to make the payment. This raises some interesting possibilities for a defence but do you have any evidence of this?



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  7. #7

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    OK, you acknowledge the claim and say you are defending in full.
    Anything else is an admission you owe the lot so forget about thinking you can maybe pay 60, it doesnt work like that.

    You dont owe any money, you offered to pay and they refused the payment, that menas you have mitigated the loss and they now cant ask for payment.

    Also as CEL are the biggest crooks in the parking world they will have added all sorts of unlawful and spuruious amounts to the amount claimed, you wait,

    Ashley may try caharging you another 200 to write his witness statement, something that has to happen anyway or there is no claim but people often dont know waht is allowed and what isnt so pay up before he asks for a new house.

    I have no idea where Poplar Walk is so please tell us the street address or postcode so we can google it and give us an idea of what sort of car park it is, shopping centre, residential estate or what.

    also tell us what paperwork you still have, so for example the original NTK.
    Also, it isnt a FINE, it is jusr an invoice and probably an unlawful demand cos CEL dont care about the law that allows them to ask in the first place.

    I have had a quick look on google spyonyourneighbour and can see 2 signs at the entrance.

    The first says phone and pay and see other signs for conditions.
    This is not a contract to park but an invitation to treat and that menas the conditions on the other signs are not set in stone so your offer you made should have been accepted.

    The second sign cannot be read from google but it isnt an offer from CEL so that gives them problems regarding locus standi, or a right to make a court claim.
    In short, it appears as though they have nothing to do with the offer so cant sue you.

    Now as you can see that hasnt stopped them from spending money to do exactly that but it means that when you defend they will lose the claim as no contract exists between you that is enforceable.

    Usual CEL con trick so once they see why you are defending they will have to drop the claim or end up paying costs and possibly getting sued by you if you are that way minded.

    So, paperwork and some decent pictures of the signage needed so you can send an outline defence off within the time allowed but get the acknowledgement done now to buy you an extra fortnight to do the rest.

    Registering at moneyclaimicon dot gov dot uk is the quickest way


  8. #8

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimformicon.
    .
    register as an individual
    note the long gateway number given
    then log in
    .
    select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
    .
    then using the details required from the claimform
    .
    defend all
    leave jurisdiction unticked.
    click thru to the end
    confirm and exit MCOL.

    get a CPR 3114 request running to the solicitors
    .https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.u...ng-Court-Claim)

    type your name ONLY

    no need to sign anything
    .
    you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
    you MUST file a defenceicon regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
    it makes a thread twice as long to scroll through..save data costs
    If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread
    DX
    RIP Martin3030

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Quote Originally Posted by BankFodder View Post
    You say that you are tempted to call them the day afterwards and to make the payment. This raises some interesting possibilities for a defence but do you have any evidence of this?
    I've got no evidence as this was last year.


  10. #10

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    action post 9

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
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  11. #11
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    Default

    Name of the Claimant ? Civil Enforcement Limited
    claimants Solicitors:
    I dont know - the claim formicon shows the Signed box as 'Civil Enforcement Limited (Claimant's Legal Representative)'

    Date of issue - 11/10/2018

    What is the claim for –
    1.Claim for monies relating to a parking chargeicon for parking in a private car park managed by the Claimant in breach of the terms + conditions (T+Cs).

    2.Drivers are allowed to park in accordance with T+Cs of use. ANPR cameras and/or manual patrols are used to monitor vehicles entring+ exiting the site.

    3. Debt + damages claimed the sum of 236.

    4. violation date 07/09/2017. time in:09:27, time out 18:06. Car Park - Poplar Walk Car Park, PCN ref:XXX, Car REgistration XXXXtotal due 235


    4. the Claimant claims the sum of 256.59 for monies relating to a parking chargesicon per above including 20:59 interest pursuant to S.69 of the county courticon act 1984 rate 8%pa from dates above to 10/10/18, same reate to judgement or [sooner] payment
    daily rate 0.05
    total debt and interest 256.59


    What is the value of the claim? - 256.59

    Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ?
    Private Parking company

    Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I got a letter from ZZPS - but did not keep them so dont know if they were notice of assignment.

    Thanking you and everyone who has added comments to my thread.

    Hi dx
    Hi @dx100uk
    I'm a bit confused regarding the NTK.
    I dont have any of the early letters - they've all been recycled months back as the incident happened over a year ago.

    I've managed to find one of the letters from CEL dated 24/08/2018 which could be an NTK?

    I'm reattaching the 3 documents I have as as a single pdf, that is all I have, with all personal information including any codes redacted.

    I've actioned post 9 as per your instructions and submitted the AOS.
    for the CPR 3114 request - who do I send this to?
    On the claim form there is no solicitor mentioned.
    On some of the other threads where people have uploaded their claim form, the solicitor has Signed the claim.
    Thanks
    Al

    Thanks @ericsbrother
    I will take some pictures of the signage tomorrow and uploadicon to this thread.

    I've registered on MCOL and submitted AOS as per Dx's instructions.

    Thanks again to both of you.
    Kind Regards
    Al

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  12. #12

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    you must type out the POCicon in FULL PLEASE

    FWIW none of those uploads are an NTK.

    CRP goes to CEL

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
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    DX
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Hi
    Sorry what is a POCicon?
    Will send CRP to CEL.
    Thanks


  14. #14

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Particulars of Claim on the court form. dx meant that we like to see all of what they submitted, if there's more than you told us in post #12.


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  15. #15
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    Default

    Hi HB
    There is no other information on the claim formicon apart from the details on the first page in the small box on the left.
    I’ve looked at all the other pages.
    I’ve seen on other threads the text says they’ll send particulars later etc.
    But even that’s not mentioned on mine!?
    Thanks
    Al


  16. #16

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    well there is and ive updated post 12 now.

    the important bit is they cant claim damages, what did you damage in 8.5hrs of theirs?

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Hi @dx100uk
    Sorry I didn't realise you wanted the whole text typed out in that format.
    I didn't damage anything in the car park - is that enough as defence?

    I've attached the signage pictures.

    How do I go about putting a defence ? Or do I need to wait till the response to the CRP comes?

    Thanks
    Al

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  18. #18

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    Not due till day 33 weeks way

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
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  19. #19

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    You didnt damage anything..thats the point..only the landowner can claim 'damages'

    Time to go read as many ppc claimformicon threads esp from CEL

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
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    DX
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  20. #20

    Default Re: CEL Claimform - Croydon Poplar Walk car park.

    you need to read up on terminology, damages is the monies they are claiming. They are stating that you have caused them a loss by not paying them immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by alladin78 View Post
    Hi @dx100uk
    Sorry I didn't realise you wanted the whole text typed out in that format.
    I didn't damage anything in the car park - is that enough as defence?

    I've attached the signage pictures.

    How do I go about putting a defence ? Or do I need to wait till the response to the CRP comes?

    Thanks
    Al



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