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  1. #1
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    Default Work disciplinary.....

    Here's the deal...


    I made a mistake, not denying it at all. First actual mistake i've made at this employer.


    It turns out this same mistake has been happening for years, I believe the root cause is their database/system, which takes no action to mitigate against such mistakes and actually in this particular case encourages mistakes.



    The root cause is defined as the non-human element that would have absolutely prevented the error if removed from the equation. So for example, if you were told to cross a narrow foot bridge and fell off because there was no hand rail, where does the fault lie?? hmmm?


    What's annoying is that there is no willingness to fix the problem, what's more annoying is that it's happened so many times with different people that you have to wonder why the bloody the problem (which it turns out has been complained about multiple times) has never been identified. As a former quality engineer I find this extremely frustrating.......



    The company has a pretty toxic blame culture, it's always "who" not "how" or "why", people try to cover up mistakes and push responsibility down onto someone else, every now and again someone gets sacrificed to the blame gods so that a certain person can appear as though they are doing their job.
    Some people even go so far as to establish an email chain before doing anything they're asked to do by this person, in the misguided belief that this protects them from blame, when in fact they're not the only people with access to said emails.



    My mistake was basically in forgetting a screw up had occurred when I got back into work on Monday, having had barely any sleep due to a constantly screaming 3 week old baby which has had to be put onto medication for severe reflux (i hate mentioning that, but it's relevant to explaining my tiredness).


    Should well designed, robust systems and processes fall over as soon as someone comes into work sick or tired? I think not.

    So here we are, facing a disciplinary for a minor mistake (which is being trumped up into something bigger), knowing full well that had they investigated previous mistakes properly and implemented corrective actions, it wouldn't have happened at all.


    The primary "complaint" is not the cost of the mistake, but the "personal embarrassment" caused, which i'm finding it very hard to not say "well suck it up snowflake, fix your sh*t and stop blaming people who fall into the cracks".


  2. #2

    Default Re: Work disciplinary.....

    So to mistake proof your own system should you not have some way of leaving yourself reminder notes ?

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Work disciplinary.....

    Sorry, that's not a fix, it's a sticking plaster.


    I'm not kidding myself, I understand it's hard for most people to see this when they haven't work my sort of background, but systems should be robust enough to mitigate against mistakes happening, to the point where the only way to screw up is deliberately.


    When the same problem occurs again and again (even going back before I joined), you have to wonder why there is a reluctance to even consider fixing it.


    In both the automotive manufacturing sector and the defence sector, if you went back to a customer with "oh we found the person and punished them", they'd tear you a new ********, starting with "ok, how do you plan on making sure nobody does this again?" and your response is "post-it notes", you'd lose a million contract.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Work disciplinary.....

    You're right, I have experienced the same problem.
    Unfortunately bosses are not interested in fixing these sort of issues even when life is at risk.
    It's usually because of money but also because if they keep things open to accidental mistakes, they can get rid of people more easily.
    Sad but unless there's a government organization supervising and taking in whisleblowers' complaint, there's nothing you can do rather than highlight the problem in your disciplinary.


  5. #5

    Default Re: Work disciplinary.....

    Whistleblowers rights are for company's breaking the law, not for in house bad software systems


  6. #6

    Default Re: Work disciplinary.....

    I was referring to putting life at risk, see my entire post.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Work disciplinary.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Strider440 View Post
    Here's the deal...


    I made a mistake, not denying it at all. First actual mistake i've made at this employer.


    It turns out this same mistake has been happening for years, I believe the root cause is their database/system, which takes no action to mitigate against such mistakes and actually in this particular case encourages mistakes.



    The root cause is defined as the non-human element that would have absolutely prevented the error if removed from the equation. So for example, if you were told to cross a narrow foot bridge and fell off because there was no hand rail, where does the fault lie?? hmmm?


    What's annoying is that there is no willingness to fix the problem, what's more annoying is that it's happened so many times with different people that you have to wonder why the bloody the problem (which it turns out has been complained about multiple times) has never been identified. As a former quality engineer I find this extremely frustrating.......



    The company has a pretty toxic blame culture, it's always "who" not "how" or "why", people try to cover up mistakes and push responsibility down onto someone else, every now and again someone gets sacrificed to the blame gods so that a certain person can appear as though they are doing their job.
    Some people even go so far as to establish an email chain before doing anything they're asked to do by this person, in the misguided belief that this protects them from blame, when in fact they're not the only people with access to said emails.



    My mistake was basically in forgetting a screw up had occurred when I got back into work on Monday, having had barely any sleep due to a constantly screaming 3 week old baby which has had to be put onto medication for severe reflux (i hate mentioning that, but it's relevant to explaining my tiredness).


    Should well designed, robust systems and processes fall over as soon as someone comes into work sick or tired? I think not.

    So here we are, facing a disciplinary for a minor mistake (which is being trumped up into something bigger), knowing full well that had they investigated previous mistakes properly and implemented corrective actions, it wouldn't have happened at all.


    The primary "complaint" is not the cost of the mistake, but the "personal embarrassment" caused, which i'm finding it very hard to not say "well suck it up snowflake, fix your sh*t and stop blaming people who fall into the cracks".
    I really don't understand this post
    You seem to be moaning and not specifying the issue
    Are you admitting you made a mistake and stating the mitigating factor?
    or
    Are you stating that the system wasn't robust enough to pick up your mistake?
    These two are different approaches and the response you get depends on your company and the culture that prevails there
    Your approach really matters


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Work disciplinary.....

    Quote Originally Posted by dondada View Post
    I really don't understand this post
    You seem to be moaning and not specifying the issue
    Are you admitting you made a mistake and stating the mitigating factor?
    or
    Are you stating that the system wasn't robust enough to pick up your mistake?
    These two are different approaches and the response you get depends on your company and the culture that prevails there
    Your approach really matters

    It was more of an open ended post, to get responses on the general situation.


    There are personal mitigating factors (at that time), such as recent involvement in a serious car accident and lack of sleep due to a newborn baby (2 weeks old at the time), which they know about and makes what they're doing even more of a [removed] shot below the belt.


    The system failures which I raised, those that preceded the mistake, are issues that (it turns out) many people knew about but have been too worried to mentioned for sake of retribution.

    I believe that a robust "system" should easily mitigate against people being sick (especially considering their draconian sick pay policy), people being tired and momentary lapses of concentration.


    I don't think that this is merely about a mistake, I think it's more of a "shut up and stop rocking the boat", because of the issues I raised.

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  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strider440 View Post
    It was more of an open ended post, to get responses on the general situation.


    There are personal mitigating factors (at that time), such as recent involvement in a serious car accident and lack of sleep due to a newborn baby (2 weeks old at the time), which they know about and makes what they're doing even more of a c*ntish shot below the belt.


    The system failures which I raised, those that preceded the mistake, are issues that (it turns out) many people knew about but have been too worried to mentioned for sake of retribution.

    I believe that a robust "system" should easily mitigate against people being sick (especially considering their draconian sick pay policy), people being tired and momentary lapses of concentration.


    I don't think that this is merely about a mistake, I think it's more of a "shut up and stop rocking the boat", because of the issues I raised.
    This is still little more than a serious whinge, with sexist profanities now thrown in. What you believe is irrelevant. As are your personal circumstances outside work. That's none of the employers concern. Their concern is that you do your job, you haven't, and actually, you are on something of a hiding to nothing claiming that the mistake was made when you actually know about the problem (whatever it is).

    This is clearly not the workplace for you. You don't like the employer, you don't like your job, you don't like the terms, and you don't seem to have a good word to say about it. Which is fair enough. So why are you still working there?


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Work disciplinary.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sangie595 View Post
    This is still little more than a serious whinge, with sexist profanities now thrown in. What you believe is irrelevant. As are your personal circumstances outside work. That's none of the employers concern. Their concern is that you do your job, you haven't, and actually, you are on something of a hiding to nothing claiming that the mistake was made when you actually know about the problem (whatever it is).

    This is clearly not the workplace for you. You don't like the employer, you don't like your job, you don't like the terms, and you don't seem to have a good word to say about it. Which is fair enough. So why are you still working there?





    Actually your wrong, we're people, not machines, to err is human and any business that does not account for possible mistakes, nay actually encourages mistakes, is utterly foolish.


    And sexist what? Are you feeling ok? would you like a safe space?


  11. #11

    Default Re: Work disciplinary.....

    Hi

    How long have you been employed with your present employer?

    Have you had any previous warning on record?

    Exactly what are you up on Disciplinary for?

    I have to say from your thread if this is going to be your approach to this disciplinary hearing with your employer I can only see it going one way and not in your favour.

    Outside work hours as mentioned (car accident, 3 week old baby) is nothing to do with the employer.

    Bringing others in the workplace knew about this issue directly means you were fully aware of this issue.

    You need to step back and concentrate on exactly what they are disciplining you on and not what others may or may not have done/said, yes you are probably upset about this (to put it politely) but your approach on this thread will get you nowhere in the disciplinary.

    Do you have a copy of their Disciplinary Policy? (have you read it fully and have they followed there own policy)

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  12. #12

    Default Re: Work disciplinary.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Strider440 View Post

    And sexist what? Are you feeling ok? would you like a safe space?



    That'd be your use of the C word. It's entirely valid to be offended by it, and it is a gendered insult.


    Are you always this aggressive at work? Previous posts suggest so but I can't work out if that's you in the real world or just for here. You've had disciplinaries and been let go because "it's not working out" at previous employers?



    But many employers will use smaller mistakes to get rid of someone with behavioual issues, because it's just easier.



    I get that you are tired. I get that the employer does not match your idea of perfection. However a dose of "I'm sorry", however hard to swallow, woold go a long way towards smoothing word relationships, if that is what you want to do. It's a tough employment market out there if you're not in a few specialist IT areas; and you have a young kid - not the best time to be job hunting?


    Don't get obessed over what you feel is right - right is subjective. Work out what you want the end state to be, and act accordingly.

    Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Work disciplinary.....

    What, actually, is your current complaint? The information set out above can be provided at the disciplinary correct?

    Thereafter you can decide what to do?


  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strider440 View Post
    Actually your wrong, we're people, not machines, to err is human and any business that does not account for possible mistakes, nay actually encourages mistakes, is utterly foolish.


    And sexist what? Are you feeling ok? would you like a safe space?
    It is entirely your opinion and nothing more as to how a business that you do not own should conduct themselves. When you own the business, you may run it as you wish. They are currently running it at they wish, and will continue to do so. Any employee who doesn't realise that is utterly foolish.

    If you don't know the answer to that you may wish to consider the extent to which your own behavior contributes towards your employers view of your conduct. You clearly aren't very self aware.


  15. #15

    Default Re: Work disciplinary.....

    As the thread does not contain enough information about this issue, then it is difficult to comment.

    If there is any system issue, then collect any useful information that is available and take this to any disciplinary meeting.

    I presume any disciplinary would relate to performance and therefore before any such disciplinary meeting, it would be up to the employers to provide notice of what the exact performance issue was, that needed to be addreessed. This would enable the employee to gather any information they needed, so that any discussion on performance could be fairly held.

    In regard to performance disciplinaries, perhaps it would be useful to understand what is required of employers legally and what is just good practice ?


  16. #16

    Default Re: Work disciplinary.....

    you talk of a blame culture, it is clearly endemic. You talk about a systme failure without saying what it was and what you are accused of that warrants disciplinary action. You are very aggressive to people who offer help and if you allowed them to you wold find they are experts in this field.
    Be a little more forthcoming and you will get advice


  17. #17

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