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A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

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  1. #41

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    get them to show you the planning permission for their cowboy outfits's signage then


  2. #42

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    Quote Originally Posted by ericsbrother View Post
    get them to show you the planning permission for their cowboy outfits's signage then
    I jumped the gun on that one a bit. I've already sent a FOIicon request off to Barnet Council. Found a letter someone else had sent asking the same questions which got a response and used that.

    I did also check the planning applications, found plenty on the site, nothing for the car park, ANPR or signage.


  3. #43

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    FOIicon is a waste of time and not what we recommend on CAGicon

    you need to either ring the relevant planning debt of the relevant council or go look on their website.
    or even better send a letter.

    dx

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    DX
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  4. #44

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    I will do that. Already looked at the applications on their website, nothing about the car park is mentioned. Not much time left now. Should I still appeal to ECP to delay the process?


  5. #45

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    wont matter a monkies they always reject.

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  6. #46

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post
    wont matter a monkies they always reject.
    I'm aware of that, but if I don't do anything, then I won't be able to get a POPLAicon code to waste their time and money. I've always thought the process was to appeal with any excuse and demand POPLA code where you appeal properly.


  7. #47

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    sure, my favourite one is my dog wanted to use the toilet in makky' ds
    doesn't really matter what you put,

    let eb suggest

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  8. #48

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    You should always just phone the planning people, they know a damned sight more than the lawyers in charge of the FOIicon section and you will get a speedy and sensible answer. However, my suggestion was to put doubt in the mind of Sainsburys head office by making it clear that as it is their land they are responsible for the criminality of theior servants not having the necessary permissions and thus leaving them open to legal action ( not actually that likely but they may consider they dont want to risk it and tell the parking cowboys to cancel). This is about making them think you know something they dont and using their social media pages to broadcast this may also do the trick.


    As for appeal to get a POPLAicon code, stating your were given permission by the landowner to stay in their coffee shop (or any franchise on the site) will do, they wont accept it as they will claim you need to ask the parking co permission but ANPR actually rules out that option so the decision will look stupid in the long run. When you appeal to POPLA you can add all sorts of things such as demanding proof of authority etc that will create more work for them then it is worth so they may just decide to not contest the appeal.


  9. #49

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    Should I also mention to POPLAicon that the driver didn't park in their car park, and didn't even enter it and instead parked in front of the council owned garage which is beyond the ANPR? Oh and should the appeal to parking co be in letter or should I just follow their web appeal service?

    Thanks!


  10. #50

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    You are not at POPLAicon yet, tell the parking co the vehicle didnt enter the land as specified and ask them to provide "strict proof" that it did. Let them know that as there was no contract to breach they have obtained your keeper details under false pretences and you will be seeking compensation for the breach of the GDPRicon.
    Complain to the council that ECP are demanding money from people visiting their property and demand that they get the planning peopel to enforce or make then cover up their cameras. Get on to the local press as well, they may have ahd a previous story on a similar thing.


    Let Sainsburys know this as well and tell them that you are happy to speak publicly on this. their Corporate relations or press relations team should be your port of call now, not customer servicesicon.


  11. #51

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    Appeal sent to ECP today.


  12. #52

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    How long do they have to consider my appeal? It has been 18 days and I've not had a response. Their website said it would be via email and I've not had anything, also checked spam.

    Edit: Reading the letter, they said they would acknowledge the appeal within 14 days and will respond in 35.

    Edit2: I'm an idiot, they emailed at the same time I sent the appeal which is the acknowledgement. I expected a further email.


  13. #53

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    no time limit. It used to eb that POPLAicon read the POFA differently but since it changed to Ombudsmanserviceslimited running the show then you wont win by them being timed out.


    You need to read stuff from about 3 years ago to understand roughly what the remit of POPLA is now as you will see stuff winning appeals back then that doesnt now.

    Doesnt chage the law though just give the parking co a false expectation

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  14. #54

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    Got a response from the FOIicon request (I know you said not to bother).

    No planning permission for ANPR or signage and Sainbury's likely don't own the land, need to speak with the planning dept.


  15. #55

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    Obtained the title and plan. I'll have a better look at it later. Shows a right of way running through the land, guess they can't enforce tickets there?

    P.S - Am I allowed to share these documents here?

    Attached Files Attached Files

  16. #56

    Default

    that will be an interesting point to raise, the Sainsburys in Beddington Lane, Croydon has a bus route going through it as well as other industrial buildings that used the road the PE had put its cameras on.
    refused to cancel a load of tickets until it got to court.

    As usual they blamed other people for teir rubbish system by saying things like " you should have given us a whitelist of all of your visitors" when the reality is they ahd no right to operate ther cameras on the land it was snapping.

    Old news now but the same argument applies, they have no right to process the data of peope using the right of way.
    As for FOIicon requests, they are useful when used correctly.
    You didnt need to use that law as the planning people are obliged to help you anyway and most likely will if you just ask them.
    Most FOIicon bods at councils are lawyers so will automatically look for reasons NOT to give you the info.
    Horses for courses.

    so you need to know exactly where the cameras pick up their images as there are 2 roads that enter or touch this site.
    dont forget, you are not in a hurry to tell ECP waht a bunch of wazzocks they are so collect everything you can and let them provide the rope to hang themselves.

    So far it is all looking good.

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  17. #57

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    Thanks, the images are taken at each end of this right of way. You cannot enter or leave the land without being in view of the cameras, and the only access is the same access as the public right of way.

    I have now contacted the planning enforcement to report lack of planning, and also pointed out that it's a public right of way. Probably won't go anywhere but wouldn't hurt to try.


  18. #58

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    enforcement of the law for this is actually quite rare but does happen. See the PE Nottingham thread from about 3 years ago.


  19. #59

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    It's probably better had you not written as the Council are unlikely to take PE to Court since it may leave the Council themselves open to challenges by motorists who feel that the Council should have acted much quicker in picking up on this illegal activity going on in their own backyard. The main thing is
    though that once the car park has planning permission motorists can no longer use the lack of PP as a means of not paying.


  20. #60

    Default Re: Euro Car Parks - Sainsbury's - Golders Green (ANPR) - 614 Finchley Road, Golders Green, London, NW11 7RX

    depends on the council, the Nottingham case the council made PE yake down their stuff whilst they made their decisions so putting them to some cost. other councils have insisted on the cameras and signs being covered. Now making them move their cameras away from the right of way will massive inconvenience ECP as then many people will slip past the cameras or they will have to install a couple more sets and get PP for that as well.

    Convincing judges about the necessity of PP for signs has been an uphill struggle as the parkinmg co's like to refer to the wrong class of sign and say they have deemed consent when that isnt true. As PP can cost nothing it is sheer laziness or a fear of being knocked back that stops them


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