Awesome, FINALLY I have received my first ever PPC invoice.....

I'm due to go back there and will get some photos of the signage later, but I can categorically say that the signage is woefully inadequate, as you can only see it at the entrance from one direction, this is going to be so much fun! (hopefully?)

Plus I will try and find out from the council if the 45 minute max parking rule is legit or not.

1 Date of the infringement 01/10/2018

2 Date on the NTK 05/10/2018

3 Date received 08/10/2018

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? Yes

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

6 Have you appealed? No

7 Who is the parking company? Parking Eye

8. Where exactly Gosport Retail Park

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA

PCN-NTK.pdf

Booty, we will need to see the signage and an indication of the car park layout before commenting but yes, ask the council planning dept about any terms governing limits of parking in both the planning application and consent. Tehn ask about planning permissioj for PE's equipment.

Also, most retail developments are owned by large companies or pension schemes so find out who owns it and see if they use a managing agent to look after the place. Sometimes more leverage can be had if it looks like mistakes have been made and the managers are going to get the public flak via local newspaper etc so they will then tell PE to wind this one up.

My other half got one from Highview just under a fortnight ago, They had PP for signage but the land ownership was rather complicated with 3 owners and due to 2 councils having a boundary through the site. Made hay with that as first sign was in 1 council's land whilst PP was granted by the other. The retailer tried to wash their hands but I was insistent it was going to go pear shaped for them ( they had broken the lease and planning consent in other ways) so they told Highview to cancel.

Yeah, this is going pete tong!!

How can something so simple be so ruddy difficult?????

In a nutshell, I approach the car park from the right hand side of Halfords, where there is only one sign, which you can see in the first photo, yeah, the one on its side....Then there are two signs like the one attached, clearly stating 'Customer only car park' 'For use only whilst on site'.

What if I wasn't a 'customer' and left the site?

Any joy?

Jeez, I give up, printed off how to upload instructions and still failed!

pix.pdf

BB, have you looked at the upload [hyperlink] guide? The best thing is to do a multipage pdf document so people aren't here for ages uploading pics.

HB

The first sign says 45 mins max stay, it doesnt say that you have to pay them a zillion quid for overstaying so if this is a contract then they cnat now add a charge for being naughty and if they rely on other signage to form a contract then this is an invitation to treat and you can decide if you want to be bound by their terms after you have parked as you are still being invited to park there.

If you decide their contract isnt for you then the landowner may ask you to leave and you must. As that didnt happen the overstay is of no interest to PE.

Now the real problem is they wont say " it is a fair cop" and give up on this, they have paid about £49.99 for their camera system and wnat their money back form someone, hence the stupidly short allowed time in the first place.

Planning dept next stop.

as for the extra terms and conditons for disabled, that falls foul of the Consumer Rights Act as they arent even visible so an unfair contract. That means you may rejest the whole contract under s62

Thank you EB, I rang the LA earlier and they said they have no idea who owns the land, check with the Land registry but im loathed to part with money to obtain that info.

I have emailed the LA and asked them about any planning permission applied for and obtained and what it states regarding waiting times.

I shall hold fire on responding just yet, when I've knocked up a suitable response I shall post it up here first. Ty...

the Vlauations Agency have proven to be helpful in the past. Local council collect business rates so they do know but you can ask planning dept for details about the development application and that will tell you. The PE planning will be separate and more recent, somethime using the online planning portal is worthwhile and then phone them if you cant find it just in case.

This happens to be the only PP I can find for this particular area...... https://publicaccess.gosport.gov.uk/online-applications/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPage

The reason why could be to do with the fact that ''Gosport Retail Park'' doesn't actually exist, or at least each time I put that name in Google, it can't find it?? But I think my puter is on the blink??

I'm still waiting for the LA to get back to me regarding ownership and any PP they made to erect their equipment.

The Postcode for Gosport Retail Park is PO12 1SP if you want to view it on gmaps.

Looks like signage is at the entrance and within the carpark displaying the 45 mins

the NTK must identify the land so a vague place like Gosport retail park that doesnt actually exist as such will fail this test.

Another example would be "Sainsburys car park London" as there are dozens to choose from.

Again, this is something to ask the planning dept of the council or ask Valuations Agency.

If they dont have a record that matches then the argument over the place name is won

The Postcode for Gosport Retail Park is PO12 1SP if you want to view it on gmaps.

 

Looks like signage is at the entrance and within the carpark displaying the 45 mins

Yes cheers Stu, if you dig around enough you can find the po code, just that the NTK only refers to "Gosport retail park" which when you google it doesnt appear to exist.

Quick question, do I need to be disputing this whilst I wait for the LA to get back to me?

They're going to get me the info asked for by the 23rd, and with reference to my defence, I think I'll just go with the ''no such place exists'' argument.

defence???

no claimform yet is there?

defence???

no claimform yet is there?

No no nothing that exciting, sorry i was getting carried away......my appeal.

sorted your 2 uploads now

144MB of repeated pictures

no wonder it told you too...

dx

sorted your 2 uploads now

144MB of repeated pictures

no wonder it told you too...

 

dx

THANK YOU!!!

Ok the response from the LA, "I believe the signs would fall under Deemed Consent under the Advertisement Regulations Schedule 3, Part 1 under Miscellaneous Advertisements. However, without knowing the sizes of the signs I am unable to give you a definitive answer. I have shown the Regulations below with the link at the bottom:

2. An advertisement displayed for the purpose of identification, direction or warning, with respect to the land or building on which it is displayed.

(1) No advertisement may exceed 0.3 square metre in area.

(2) Illumination is not permitted.

(3) No character or symbol on the advertisement may be more than 0.75 metre in height, or 0.3 metre in an area of special control.

(4) No part of the advertisement may be more than 4.6 metres above ground level, or 3.6 metres in an area of special control.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/783/schedule/3/made

no untrue PPC signs and the cameras must have PP.

no untrue PPC signs and the cameras must have PP.

Excellent TY, is there specific legislation l can quote ?

I wasn't going to be happy with this response it clearly hasn't been looked into.

The LA are going to get back to me next week, l said that they need their own PP for their signs and eqpt, and the response from them indicates that they don't have it and are therefore acting unlawfully.

The enforcement team are now looking into it, as the only PP on their website is that of Halfords obtaining permission to erect a lit sign, back in the last decade.

good, it is rare for the local council to bother to do anything as they ahve bigger things to waste their time on like making sure people dont paint their window frames the wrong colour.

LA have responded and can confirm that there is no PP, they have checked back to 2000.

good, hopefully they will do what Nottingham council did and amde them stop their activities and apply for PP and then refuse it.

good, hopefully they will do what Nottingham council did and amde them stop their activities and apply for PP and then refuse it.

That is funny!

I should start the ball rolling really and appeal.

Dear bill & ben,

I refer to your correspondence dated ddmmyyyy the contents of which have been noted.

There is no keeper liability, I look forward to receiving the POPLA code.

Regards

The keeper.