Of course you are. Best you include it in your Witness Statement (if they don't bottle it before that stage)

But in any case there is plenty of case law similar to your situation. "De Minimis" - "the law does not deal with trivialities". You paid in full (as you wrote in the first line of your first post here). So what are they moaning about?

It's likely they will withdraw their case as they know full well you're right and they're wrong, but if they really are so stupid as to go to court enjoy your day out humiliating them.

EXACTLY THAT. If there isnt a condition you cnat breach it so they have no cause for action.

and by the way the lady on rip off britain didnt get a fine and nor did you so get things right or you may well shoot yourself in the foot.

read a load of other threads involving court and read the parking pranksters blogspot and look at his website for previous compellinga d persuasive cases.

You cn copy these and use them in your evidence, judges love precedent as it save them from going against the crowd when it comes to decisions.

Premier Parking will not do much in the way of research and will trot out a couple of old discredited bits of case law and then state that their signs mean what they want them to mean and you owe money because they say so rather than actually proving their claim.

Some judges seem to accept this, others will tear them to shreds so you need to chuck the kitchen sink into your defenec and not rely on a afir process.

Hi,

I've had a thought...Am I allowed to use, in court, the photograph taken of their parking rules and terms......none of the 12 rules even mentions reg numbers btw

Well looks like my day in court is looming as its 8th March.......how did i get to this after 4years.....i now have to submit papers to the judge eeek

so witness statement time

when have they got to pay the fee by?

dx

It was 8th February. ....and they paid!

Do you have any advice on statement format or do i just state my belief that as i had paid and got the ticket the fact i performed a minor error, should not be penalised, harrassed, threatened and generally worn down by it??

Use the search cag box of the top red toolbar

Pcn witness statement

100's here already

Thank you.....i can see i have to do a lotof reading and cherry pick to put my statement together.

You've already had 3mts to do that

But of course it would be handy to await theirs then you use yours to rip it apart

I dont understand....what do you mean 3 mths?

your last post was 20th October...three months ago

3 months to research what comes next an PREPARE...

Well 6 mths ago we sold our house. ..the deal has fallen through 3 times in early Nov we were due to move and all fell through the day before. ...half our house contents are in storage and tbe other half in boxes around the house. We are due to move 25th Feb

If you look back on previous you will see i have admitted i am not really computer literate in copy pasting and rec alling........i also said that as i had a seriously ill relative my time was and had been for the last 3 mths at her bedside either at her home, hospital or hospice......all around 45 round trip away.....to tend her i have to leave my stroke victim husband......some choice

So in sumary i have spent the last 6 mths in chaos. My sister died last Friday and her funeral is on the 7th March.....this courg case is 8th March....i am told i can move the date fir a 100.00 fee

The last 2 days i have tried to sort out this witness statement. .....that i did not know what or how to do and only knew they paid the court fee on 9th Feb

So, please do not think i have just not bothered or that i would sit back and...well just see. Believe me i am panicking now and reading through stuff......i am tomorrow going to drive to Devon ....a 8 hour drive round trip.....to take photos of this car park to aid my defence.

In all honest given all thats happened i feel like giving up......but im so annoyed with al, of this i feel i must get some justice

we understand all that as said before and it look like it got worse...

but the court nor the claimant solicitor will give a monkey's...

don't worry we are here to help

and no-one seems more needy than yourself..

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?472346-Premier-Parking-Solutions-PCN-Worried-Now-As-I-Gave-Them-My-Name-amp-Address

your witness statement will simply expand upon your defence

with exhibits like a copy of your paid for ticket.

and to rub salt in the wound id inc a copy of your BB.

read that thread above

that might provide you with enough background to stop you having to do a 8hrs journey.

Florence my condolences on the loss of your sister. You are having a tough time of it at the moment.

It beggars belied that these thieving rogues pursue motorists who they know have paid to park and thus there has been no loss, but continue to Court because of a slight error in entering the reg. number.

There have been many occasions that these crooked parking companies have lost in Court involving similar errors but they still pursue others doing the same mistake. And the reason is clear-loads of people pay up. Morally bankrupt crooks aided and abetted by second rate legal companies who have no comprehension of ethics.

I have included two websites involving the same situation as yourself and both won in Court. One was with a different parking company and the other was with TFL v Baroness Walmsley in the High Court of Justice which is compelling on lower Courts.

http://nebula.wsimg.com/bfcdd95c68b82bcc6b68408a75d23021?AccessKeyId=4CB8F2392A09CF228A46&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/keycases/WalmsleyRvLaneAnor.pdf

Point 31 is the damning one for Premier-

31 I should also take into account the purpose of the Scheme and of the imposition of penalties.

The purpose of the Scheme is, according to the witness statement of Melanie Holmes,

Transport for London's Legal Affairs Manager, to reduce congestion in the Congestion Charge

Zone and to raise revenue for transport improvements in Greater London by the imposition of

charges. No other purpose appears from its provisions. Penalties are necessary to punish and to

deter those who use vehicles within the Zone without paying. The Claimant was not such a

person. I apprehend that it is not the purpose of the provision of penalties to punish those who

make an error in providing the registration number of their vehicle.

That Tfl case should be sufficient along with proof of payment to sink them sorry about your loss but you are the important one now and must help yourself and sink these egregious fleecers.

Thank you for your much appreciated help.

Thank you for you help and advice. Ive arrived in Paignton to go and photograph the car park......just to make sure they use the 2015 phitos that i have and not tidays version....if i remember it was a run down grotty place in 2015........tomorrow i will see.

I'm not sure if Ericsbrother said to also pinpoint where the signs are in the carpark as their Notices do not always match up with where they say they are in their Witness Statement. If they don't match it gives the Judge doubts about the rest of their Statement.

Also make sure that there is a Notice at the entrance-there is supposed to be.

Thank you for that. ...Just about to go to the car park now. 11.42am

ive been back to the car park today and photographed all of the signs leading into the entrance of the carpark.

None of which mentions carpark is covered by anpr and infact there are signs but none if them are about the carpark,

they are about a strip of land running along side the road leading up a small hill into the carpark.

they are pitched so high you would not be able to read them as a driver and you would have to be 20' tall to read them.

Further the pictures i have of the cp in 2015 have all had new signs putup with different rules of parking!

to have a contract between the provider and the user so been thinking about that.......

there is no signage whatsoever that you can read until you have reached the first level of parking. .....

.and at which point you have already been captured on the anpr so this is surely a disadvantage

as if you just turned around and drive out ..

..not agreeing to their rules...…

you cannot as the anpr will automatically record you have not paid.

therefore not a fair chance to disagree with their rules.

what is important i feel is that the signs that are there about rules if parking (2)

also the rules on the metre machine (1)

are not the same as the ones in the 2015 photos.

they cannot say i have photographed a different parking area from 2015 because they number the machine to record area.....

now that number IS the same today as it was in 2015........

..feeling a bit confident now

you will add the current version of the pictures to your defence bundle so you can show the differences between the 2 sets. The parking co's will use the recent ones if the old signage is duff and claim that they are the ones you were offered at the time if they have lost claims on the quality of their signage or if they have been too lazy to have the correct evidence. you can then rubbish them over this.

the Peel cantre case highlighted above is well known and Excel did change their signs but still got beaten back because they were still inadequate after this case so in your case ther lack of signage at the entrance will be the main thrust but also remember that the actual contract is not the signs but the blurb on the parking meter itself and you are deemed to accept thos terms when you feed the meter. It has been determined that if you dotn eed the meter you dont accept the terms so they cant apply to a trespasser but some judges dont like this and so you have to know whether the money from the meter goes to the landlord or the parking co (usually the LL and th parking cowboys make their money from management fees plus the money rooked from drivers who breach the made up terms)

this means that yu will need to see the contract between Premier and the landowner as I suspect that there is no authority for them to sue to recover monies owed to the landowner ( for not paying to park) but only for the breaches of other conditions (overstay, parking on the ceiling etc)

Thank you for that.

The photos from 2015 are very clear and dated in the bottom left hand corner, they were sent to me by their initial chasing solicitors WRIGHT HASSTLE LTD SOLICITORS..........stop laughing!

They were very obliging in sending me the pics because one very important difference (apart from them having 13 rules now instead of 12 in 2015, which proves the current sign was not there in 2015)....is that the 2015 sign does not mention reg numbers at all, whereas it does now.

on the machine it now has the words the you MUST ENTER REG CORRECTLY OR YOU WILL GET A PCN whereas on the same machine in 2015 it said YOU MAY....

...which implies a choice. .

......so given a choice and i paid, parked etc correctly.

...they could have decided not to persue.

Either way its very interesting they have changed the signs.

i notice that NONE of the signs outside of the car park relate to the car park and none state ANPR in operation and the car park is up a slope....

...at the top of the slope there are no visible signs for parking rules or consequences and again no sign for ANPR.......all areas have open walls so no signage on open fresh air.ANPR

I will be typing out my WS and putting together my comparison photos...

....i also decided not to drive into the car park but still brought a ticket using 123 abcd as reg number.....

.just so i could prove that i was in the car park yesterday using same meter.

Oh how upsetting for them to have money....

...with no car on the ANPR....

....maybe they will donate that to charity lol lol

Ive also found the name and address of the land owner so will be asking to see the contract LL agreement as you suggest

Thank you so much everyone for your valued advice and help

Well done Florence, good work.

HB