Hi everyone

Having recently returned from a lovely holiday in Devon.

I have received a parking notice charge from those lovely people at Smart Parking!

After pulling into the car park at Haven Banks in Exeter I was handed a paid parking ticket by another motorist which still had one and a half hours left on it which i gladly accepted (What a mistake)

Unbeknownst to me not being a native of Exeter the car park is covered by APNR cameras showing entrance and exit times of the vehicle.

I was parked there for 1 hour and 5 mins according to this.

Having been handed the ticket by what i thought was another considerate fellow motorist we went into the Range outlet store not reading any car park signs thinking the vehicle had a valid ticket.

It was not until we returned to the vehicle after an hour that I noticed you have to put the vehicle reg into the ticket machine when you purchase it!!

Now it seem's to me although not 100% sure that the cameras are linked to the ticket machines which must have registered a non-payment!!

Therefore I think Smart Parking have got me by the short and curlies on this one and will have to pay the £58 charge.

What are your thoughts people?

Thanks in advance Gunner10

plenty here to help you

https://cse.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-8889411648654839:6449422593&ie=UTF-8&q=Haven+Banks,+Exeter&sa=Search+CAG

Thanks @dx100uk Just a thought were does the new GDPR legislation fit in with all this ? Should the DVLA be selling our details to these rogue parking companies?

cameras match up the car reg to a ticket purchase. However, does the ticket still exist? If so does it have the car reg printed on it?

There is many a slip twixt cup and lip so the parking co have to get everything right or they dont win.

Thanks @dx100uk Just a thought were does the new GDPR legislation fit in with all this ? Should the DVLA be selling our details to these rogue parking companies?

Yes that is going to be an issue for both dvla and ppc.

The ICO is having a hard time with my complaint.

I’m about to escalate to tribunal as correspondence just going back and forth and they not coming up with any satisfactory response or addressing the obligation requirements of 6c.

The dvla is entitled to provide RK details where reasonable cause is shown.

The GDPR allows the dvla to do this as long as they comply with the GDPR.

The dvla state they use article 6c of the GDPR as their lawful basis.

This is not a lawful basis for the dvla as there is no obligation for the dvla to pass the RKs details.

Therefore the dvla can only rely on art 6e, but they don’t want to use this as it allows RKs to object to the processing and requires the dvla to undertake an evaluation on case by case basis as to reasonable cause.

The ppc’s have a major issue with anpr.

The CJEU recently ruled against data processing based on anpr.

In case of ppc they apply to dvla for the RKs details even though the RKs may not have been in the vehicle, and thus how has the ppc provided the correct notifications under art 13 or 14 of the GDPR.

How can the RKs even be aware that their data will be processed.

This is one of the reasons councils cannot use Anpr.

Also the ppcs pass the registration number to the dvla, this I a transfer of the personal data of the RKs and thus the dvla has 30 days to tell the RKs that they have received the data from the ppc,

of course the dvla don’t want to do this as will cost them the profits they make from the £2.50 they charge the ppcs.

cameras match up the car reg to a ticket purchase. However, does the ticket still exist? If so does it have the car reg printed on it?

There is many a slip twixt cup and lip so the parking co have to get everything right or they dont win.

Hi @ericsbrother just been searching and unfortunately i can't find the ticket.

Looks like they have got me this time !!

Just reading the T&C sign in that car park second paragraph /third sentence read's and I quote-:

By entering this car park you consent for the purpose of car park management, to the capturing of photographs of the vehicle and registration by ANPR

How the hell can you give consent to something before anyone has even read it and they have already taken your photo upon entry?

Perhaps they expect people to park on the street,

Go in and read the sign then decide if you want to have your vehicle photographed

So what's the verdict folkes? Shoull I pay up or not ?

So what's the verdict folkes? Shoull I pay up or not ?

I doubt it, but please wait for the experts. Have you read other threads about Smart and/or Haven Banks to see what's happened?

HB

No you dont cough up!!

now thir terms are wrong, by REMAINING you consent but not by entering. You could write to them and ask that they delete all of your personal data and so forth but unless they get raied by order of the ICO you will never know if they do or dont.

There is a lot wrong with this car park, it is distincty on our radar and that of other motoring groups as their cameras are faulty as are their ticket machines and often cancel a deamnd when this is pointed oput to them in a manner that it becomes clear this isnt the last of the matter.

Now, if the contract is unfair then you arent bound by it but your problem is proof of the missing ticket. As a parking period was paid for then how thta is used is not really up to Smart but the person who paid so for example I have 2 cars and enter the reg of one and then park the other within the paid period later on. The parking co has no claim against me despite them saying the vehicle reg was different, the car isnt making a contract, the driver is so in your case the driver of the other vehicle passed his licence to be there on to you and that is nothing to do with Smart as the prescribed fee wa paid and he ( the other driver who paid) can now use the offered facility as he wishes. You enteretd into a contract with that person and if Smart really wanted to claim that there is no entitlement for the other bloke to offer his ticket they should be chasing him, not you.

Howver, as Smart are in it to make as much money as possible they wont listen to this argument so we are really down to arguing about what the signs say on the matter. have a look at other threads from this site and see if anyone has posted up pictures of the signage. If they ahve then what do they say about the transferring of tickets.

Here are the signs at Haven Banks. As you say @ericsbrother without the ticket it could be difficult.

Haven Bank Exeter.pdf

the T&C's are confusing to say the least, they dont mention the tariff nor the charge for parking other than how they ant you to. The signs that says £90 for breaching the terms doesnt have the temrs on so you cant consider them and there is no mention of transfer of the licance to park, just you have to put your reg in when apying. Well, you didnt pay so you dont have to have your reg entered ionto their system

the first sig is an invitation to treat and that menas you are invited to enter without being bound by the other terms unless you wish to, same as you arent bound by a mobile phone contract until you agree to have one, you can still wander around the shop and not enter into a contract.

lastly their contract contains a clause that is unlawful, nameky charging for CC payments. This is enough to make the whole contract void if you decide not to accept it. As they arent the landowners then they have no say over your continued parking there and the LL may instigate a claim for trespass but they will be limited to recovering their losses which will be at most £1 as that is the tariff for parking.

In short Smart are on a sticky wicket but as said, that wont stop them trying to bully you into paying them.

also they have big problems with data protection when considering their capture and processing of your data when you dont accpet their terms and say leave after reading their eye spinning terms. will they delete your data once they realise your car has left within say the 10 minutes grace periofd? I bet not

@ericsbrother Thanks for that it really is appreciated. Should I would you sit on your hands ? Or start an appeal ?

I would sit on my hands as Smart wont allow your appeal and POPLA can only consider a very limited range of things and that makes a nonsense of the system.

Interesting reply from Exeter council.

I have searched through the planning applications for erection of signs and nothing. Car park is owned by Aviva. Please read below.

Thank you for your email and enquiry.

The land and parking facilities at Haven Banks Retail Park, have always been privately owned and the current owners are the Aviva Investors Group, who have engaged Smart Parking to manage and enforce the car parking facilities there.

The web link for historical and current Planning Applications to view for Haven Banks Retail Park, is enclosed below.

Smart Parking have signed up to the British Parking Association Private Operators Scheme, and for operators to be a member they must adhere to the terms set out in the BPA Code of Practice.

Should you wish to make a complaint about the operator, I have enclosed the contact details of the British Parking Association, which I hope you'll find helpful:

British Parking Association

Stuart House

41-43 Perrymount Road

Haywards Heath

West Sussex RH16 3BN

Tel: 01444 447 300

yes but have the council given permission for the signs and camera?...office junior that didn't understand your question?

Gunner10 have you looked through the Planning applications-that letter is probably an admittance that they have not permission but the Council don't want to show they could be at fault.

that's a good point

Good Morning Folkes

Yes I have been through the planning permissions and applications for that car park and I can find nothing under Aviva or Shark sorry Smart Parking for any signs or camera.

There are plenty of applications from the retail outlets that are based there though. I wanted to post a link for people to read but unfortunately this site won't let me until I have 10 posts.

My wife has since found a receipt from the Range outlet that is based there issued during our stay! Not that that is any significance.

The receipt could be useful, don't throw it away just yet.

If you want to PM the link to one of the site team, we can put it on the thread for you.

HB

Thank you for PMing the lnk, Gunner. Here it is:

https://exeter.gov.uk/planning-services/permissions-and-applications/find-and-comment-on-a-planning-application/find-a-planning-application/

HB

PP for signage and cameras cannot be retrospective, despite what PE tells courts when they are rumbled