Hi,

I've read through a lot of posts, but can't find one that directly deals with my issue.

Please find attached the notice & pics sent to me.

I live in Scotland, so can't get any pics of any signage before the 14 days. I don't remember there being any notices except for the usual pay and display notices,

The problem with the parking bay was that if I had moved forward I would have had the front of the car over and I thought this would have made it more awkward for the cars next to me.

1 Date of the infringement 07/08/2018

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 13/08/2018

3 Date received 16/08/2018

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] No

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal]

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up No

7 Who is the parking company? Northwest Parking Management Ltd

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Central Car Park, Peter Street. Carlisle (stated on letter - I cannot confirm as I am not local to the area)

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA

I'd really appreciate it for someone to take the time to read and offer some advice.

PNCharge.pdf

from what I can see their signage fails to offer a contract for several reasons.

Firstly: the lettering signage with the core terms and conditions must be at least as large as the other main parts and this is impossible to read from google streetviews.

Secondly, the contract is only formed when you have read and agreed the conditions for parking and in this case the payment machine is actually in front of the sign so it can be said that in the absence of any conditions on the machine the other signage is meaningless as by paying the contract is formed before you get to that part so dont have to accept the second offer of additional terms if you dont want to.

Now the signs on the wall appear to be different from the main sign and neither have it clealry drawn to your attention that you are agreeing to pay them £100 if they feel like asking for it.

lastly, as we cant see the wording it is not clear what condition you have supposedly breached as what they say you have done must exactly match one of the terms of the contract.

Also there is a thing called "de minimis" where the breach is so small as to be trifling and not subject to legal action.

Your vehicle overhangs a white line but the bays themselves are not marked as closed bays so does that mean they would NOT ticket you if your vehicle was parked 2 metres further forward so as to just overhang the entrace to the bay because there is no defined "front".

This then brings into question as to how the bay is defined as there is no legal definiton in the case of off street parking, even for council car parks.

they say not parked correctly so that is open to any form of interpretation so makes the contract subject to testing as to whether it is fair or not because if it is only for one party to decide on what is correct and place the other party at a disadvantage.

Now your problem is that the parking co and POPLA wont consider these arguments because the parking co wont make money if they do and it is outside POPLA's remit despite being a sound legal argument. Many arbitration schemes are hamstrung in the same way so dont take that badly.

What to do?

i would sit on this and get a piccy of the signage and ticket machine in detail so if they do continue to try it on them you are in a position to let them know at ther last knockings that you arent ignoring them becasue you have buried your head in the sand but because you consider they have nothing worthwhile to say

Many thanks for taking the time to look at my problem and for the detailed reply.

So that I am clear - for now just ignore the letter and wait to see if I receive any further correspondence, then take it from there?

yes, I dont think appealing will get you anywhere because POPLA is hamstrung so might as well sit and wait and let the parking waste its time and money.

Keep every letter etc though and the parking ticket you bought as well

we still need to be able to read the small print so next time you are that way (or any other reader of this) get some piccies and post them up

I have had exactly the same issue in the same car park.

I have had 2 different letters from different days parking there due to my bonnet being over the line (wheels were behind the white line).

I would be interested to hear what happened with yours as I am not paying the required amount for sucha trivial "offence", especially as on the days in question the car park was about 25% full.

Thanks

star a new thread and post up the 2 letters with your personal details and any reference numbers, bar codes etc removed. leave all the date on though.

Hi,

I've just received a letter stating they will be considering court action if I do not pay the £100 within 14 days.

I've not had chance to get back to the carpark, but a friend of mine took photos of the signs for me Unfortunately it is difficult to make out the wording.

It was noticeable that there were no diagrams relating to how a car should be parked within a bay etc.

If you in a position to take photos of the signs and post them up for us to look at that would be helpful for both of us.

CONSIDERING. That is telling as it means not doing. I am considering going to the moon this afternoon but as I dont actually have a spaceship when I have weighed up the pros and cons I probably wont.

Love the example - although they would probably try to get land up there if they could!

I've attached some photos of the signage - split into top,middle,bottom so that they can be read.

It says must be parked within a bay, but the bay only has 3 sides to my knowledge.

I considered myself to be parked within the bay as all 4 wheels where inside the markings.

Scary to think how many of these letters they must be sending out for trivial things like this just hoping people pay it without question - not on really.

if you pop those into ONE multipage PDF please

we will be able to zoom on them

please read UPLOAD

hang on

this was a Windscreen PCN..ie a ticket was left on your windscreen?

how come they sent the NTK within 6days?

should have been 29-56 days..is this another vanishing ticket jobbie?

No ticket on the windscreen - first I knew about any problem was when the letter arrived with the photos.

I've attached a pdf of the sign.

Thanks for helping.

NWPSign.pdf

short version is there is no defined limit to the bay so it doesnt exist. They say lines and not confines so if there was a wall there instead of a paint job would they claim you were in the wrong? Probably yes as they only make money by such pettifogging. They then rely on bullying to get you to pay up and most do.

If more people sued them for breach of the GDPR for obtaining keeper details under false pretences then they would have to change their business model

So, for now just keep ignoring the letters and wait to see if they decide to take it further?

Thanks.

yes, they are unlikely to want to do court as it will cost them another £50-100 whereas a few scary letters cost £15

Hi,

 

I've read through a lot of posts, but can't find one that directly deals with my issue.

Please find attached the notice & pics sent to me.

 

I live in Scotland, so can't get any pics of any signage before the 14 days. I don't remember there being any notices except for the usual pay and display notices,

 

The problem with the parking bay was that if I had moved forward I would have had the front of the car over and I thought this would have made it more awkward for the cars next to me.

 

1 Date of the infringement 07/08/2018

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 13/08/2018

3 Date received 16/08/2018

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] No

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal]

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up No

7 Who is the parking company? Northwest Parking Management Ltd

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Central Car Park, Peter Street. Carlisle (stated on letter - I cannot confirm as I am not local to the area)

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA

 

I'd really appreciate it for someone to take the time to read and offer some advice.

Did you get anywhere with this. I’ve just had the exact same letter from them this morning. I parked my car and paid but I reversed into the spot. It seems that when I reversed in I thought all was fine as it seemed I was in the bay. However the photo shows that although my wheels were in, my boot overhangs the white line by a small amount - they say this is a breach.

I was intending to appeal it and then say I wil defend in court

, ignore them and let them waste their time chsing shadows. Enter ibntio communicatuion and you create problems that dont exist

DO NOT APPEAL but do start a new thread and give us the dates of your event and what you have received so far

, ignore them and let them waste their time chsing shadows. Enter ibntio communicatuion and you create problems that dont exist

DO NOT APPEAL but do start a new thread and give us the dates of your event and what you have received so far

Will do as soon as I’m home from work - thanks

Hi,

Please find attached the latest instalment from these jokers.

This is the 3rd letter I have received from them since my last post - it now threatens me with solicitors and the amount is now £170

I've also attached the information request from the DVLA - which took nearly 8 weeks to get.

What I find strange with the request is that it wasn't Northwest Parking who asked for it, but the debt agency ZZPS - how can they request the details before the NTK letter is even sent out?

The longer they persist with this, the more I want to turn the tables on them for breach of GDPR as mentioned by ericsbrother.

I'm assuming this is still just a case of ignoring until the court letter arrives?

Thanks.

Dreclett.pdf

DVLAReq.pdf

complain to the ICO about a 3rd party asking for youe keeper details when they had no reasonable cause to do so bearing in mind they have no "locus" and were outside the time permitted under the POFA

send a copy to the DVLA and pose the question to both as to what quality control is applied to these requests, particularly from a company that isnt involved in the first place. ask the ICO whether they think that ZZPS passing on your data is lawful as they had no lawful reason to obtain it in the first place.

Just to throw one in here - I may be wrong so am happy to be corrected by the experts - but have been reading something on Pepipoo where the RK is in Scotland and saw this from one of the regular contributors "Registered keeper in Scotland = outside jurisdiction of England & Wales County Court". Does that mean they would be unable to pursue or that they would have to raise the claim in Scotland?

they would have to raise the claim in Scotland..but the muppets haven't realised that yet..to do that with their travel will cost 3 times the sum they are after.

the penny will drop soon..

the event took place in England so english law decides. However, it will be dealt with in your local court and as said, their potential losses are massive compared to their potential gains.

If car park was in scotland then the POFA doesnt apply and ergo no keeper iability and that menas almost no lawful reason to obtain your keeper data. No trespass either so they cant claim for any losses that way either.

Hi all,

Please find attached the latest instalment - a solicitors letter!

The longer this continues the more irritating it becomes - I think I will take ericsbothers advice and complain to the ICO.

Is the advice to just keep on ignoring until they do actually issue a court date?

Thanks for all the input.

sollett.pdf

redact the details off that letter pdq