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    • Thank you for that "read me", It's a lot to digest, lots of legal procedure. There was one thing that I was going to mention to you,  but in one of the conversations in that thread it was mentioned that there may be spies on the Forum,  this is something that I've read quite some time ago in a previous thread. What I had in mind was to wait for the thirty days after their reply to my CCA request and then send the unenforceable letter. I was hoping that an absence of signature could be the Silver Bullet but it seems that there are lot of layers to peel on this Onion.  
    • love the extra £1000 charge for confidentialy there BF   Also OP even if they don't offer OOC it doesn't mean your claim isn't good. I had 3 against EVRi that were heard over the last 3 weeks. They sent me emails asking me to discontinue as I wouldn't win. Went infront of a judge and won all 3.    Just remember the law is on your side. The judges will be aware of this.   Where you can its important to try to point out at the hearing the specific part of the contract they breached. I found this was very helpful and the Judge made reference to it when they gave their judgements and it seemed this was pretty important as once you have identified a specific breach the matter turns straight to liability. From there its a case of pointing out the unlawfullness of their insurance and then that should be it.
    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
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Cabot/Mortimer old stayed Claim - Yorkshire Bank overdraft - Threat of lift Stay/ Summary Judgement


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Hi all,

 

Hoping for some advice if possible.

 

Early 2017 I received a claim form from Cabot for an old Yorkshire Bank overdraft debt

- I wasn't in the best position at the time but did manage to file a standard claim defence through MCOL and then was told it would be sent back to the client to review.

Heard nothing and am now in a much better situation

 

out the blue approx a week ago I received a letter from the solicitors with the documentation I had requested in my claim defence etc.

I have attached a copy of the letter they have sent me and they have also sent full bank statements, notices of charges and a notice of assignment.

 

The claim is for approx £1000 - £875 from the account and the rest in solicitor fees.

 

As a bit of context,

the account was held from 2013-2014 and I had a serious gambling addiction at the time,

essentially any money I received I was spending straight away on gambling.

 

I had a current account with Yorkshire Bank with no agreed overdraft,

yet I was constantly able to go several hundreds of pounds overdrawn,

and of course the fees made this worse.

 

Based on the bank statements they sent,

I accrued approx £850 of bank charges in the 10/11 months I used the account (these were at £25 per charge for unplanned overdraft and a couple of £35 returned DD).

 

Note the final balance now is not just charges as some of these were paid off during using the account.

I was in a cycle where I would be overdrawn,

credit the account and return to a positive balance,

then be allowed to go overdrawn on gambling transactions and

then charges would be added and the cycle would repeat,

until I ended up so deep overdrawn I abandoned the account.

 

Towards the end I was able to go over £600 overdrawn in gambling transactions,

and then £185 fees were also added to this as well as extra debit interest that accumulated.

 

The letter states they would like to settle without further court proceedings and that I can propose a repayment plan.

After some research online I believe one option to me would be to submit a formal complaint to Yorkshire Bank about the charges and my financial situation at the time and how I was constantly able to go overdrawn by a large amount, and if necessary go on to the Ombudsman after.

 

Do you think this is a good approach, and would it stop Mortimer wanting to proceed with court action whilst the complaint is considered?

I am of course open to any other suggestions!

 

Thanks a lot and sorry for the long read, please let me know if any more info is required.

 

Attached:

Letter received today

Statement of amount owed

One of the bank statements (towards the end of the account) as an example - can see it started OD, went into credit, then ended more OD than it started

 

(unfortunately i no longer have copy of original claim form or my defence - trying to access MCOL to retrieve these but wasn't thinking straight enough to keep a log of my details when this all started a couple of years ago)

 

Thanks for any advice

Edited by dx100uk
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please complete this:

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-2018**(2-Viewing)-nbsp

 

and pop all those scans into ONE multipage PDF please

 

else well be here all day downloading single pages and putting our screens on their side

 

can you also post up the defence you filed

 

pers i'd not do anything unless you get a N244 to lift the stay

sounds like a begging letter to me!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Go get Officelens - Itll PDF it and line it up in the camera properly.

Its more readable...

I can read sod all on ths... :) (Not your fault)

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

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Used a site online to combine into a PDF - hopefully that makes it easier!

 

Re copy of the defence, I'm trying to regain access to the MCOL website to access it and just waiting for help getting my user ID so I can login and retrieve this

 

Qs and As:

 

Name of the Claimant? Cabot

 

Date of issue - Feb 2017

 

Particulars of Claim -

 

"Monies due under current account overdraft.

1.THe claimant's claim is for the balance outstanding under a Bank account facility Yorkshire Bank agreed to maintain for the defendant. It was a term of the Bank account that any debit balance would be repayable by the Defendant in full on demand. The defendant has failed to repay the amount due. The debt was assigned to the Claimant."

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Can't remember

What is the total value of the claim? £1005

 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Overdraft

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After, May 2013

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. - Cabot

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? - Yes

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? - Not sure, don't think so

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? Not sure, don't think so

 

Why did you cease payments? Couldn't afford, went too deep into unplanned overdraft and couldn't afford to get account bank into credit, redirected wages to new account

What was the date of your last payment? Account stopped being used in Feb 2014

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management planicon? No

Thank you

jpg2pdf (1).pdf

Edited by dx100uk
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So you could propose a reasonable payment plan that is affordable to yourself......or you simply ignore their letter and wait and see if they make application to lift the stay and proceed to trial and take your chance.

 

If there was no agreed overdraft facility...which the letter confirms..then in theory you couldn't be allowed to go into overdraft as any transaction would be declined.

It could be argued that the Bank as allowed this to happen to maximise charges and interest..and therefore created the debt by its own volition.

 

But its your choice on how to handle it.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Thanks for the advice.

 

I had considered making a repayment offer based on the actual amount I went overdrawn through my own transactions, minus any charges that had been applied by Yorkshire Bank

- but after looking over at it in total I was charged about £850 of bank fees so there would only be £25 or so left (based on original amount of 875 OD).

 

The bank charges do seem incredibly excessive and looking back at it now I do feel I was exploited a bit, or rather that they could have done more and that their actions in allowing me to go hundreds of pounds overdrawn and then adding hundreds of pounds of fees did make my financial situation considerably worse.

 

If I didn't offer any repayment plan or reply, their next step is likely to be a N244 claim to lift the stay and proceed to court I'd assume?

 

In this case does it seem to make sense to make a complaint to Yorkshire Bank/Ombudsman about the situation and the lack of overdraft, informing Mortimer of this (assuming they would wait until the outcome of complaint to lift the stay) and then seeing how it progresses?

 

If the complaint wasn't upheld then I would then have to offer a repayment plan I assume or go to court and try a similar defence

Edited by dx100uk
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Did you have the A/C before you start gambling

Pers id await the n244

 

If its 90% charges i cant see the judge making you pay those re the OFT stuff

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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No i was already gambling when I opened the account, for a couple of years prior

 

The £850 charges includes those that have effectively already been paid on each monthly statement, in the last month or 2 of using the account I think the account went to -650 via transactions and then went up to 875 with charges added on. Some charges were added in previous months but then the account was put back into credit the following month and so on so I'm not sure if that counts

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i was thinking irresponsible lending but as it had no OD? Cant use that??

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes if i made a complaint to FOS/Yorkshire Bank it would be based on that they shouldn't have let me go overdrawn significantly as I had PDL defaults prior to this account also and therefore irresponsible lending,

 

but from research online there seems to be varying stories about whether this would be covered as there was no planned overdraft,

but surely with no overdraft (and it would certainly have been rejected if overdraft applied for)

it is irresponsible to allow to make transactions to go £600 overdrawn

Edited by dx100uk
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agreed give it a go see our IRL guide

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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IRL would apply in this case... No suitable safeguard was put in place to prevent this from happening - They are still *LENDING* you the money through the form of an Unarranged OD which is clearly defined in the terms of the Original Acc Agreement.

On top of that look at PDL stuff too...

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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Link to irl is in the post above in purple

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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It wont progress until they make application to lift the stay...their letter may be a bluff to get you to react.....do nothing for now.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

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Thanks for the advice, ideally it is a bluff!

 

By do nothing for now do you mean I shouldn't make a irresponsible lending complaint or that I should make a complaint but don't do anything to reply to Mortimer (not even advise them it's under complaint)?

 

Thanks

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yes

and yes

 

make an IRL complaint

 

ignore cabot/mort

 

unless you get an N244

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 3 months later...

Hi, just as an update on this I went through an irresponsible lending complaint to Yorkshire Bank and then referred it to the ombudsman, this unfortunately wasn't upheld.

 

Mortimer have sent a letter last week - a basic letter that said they haven't had any contact from me for a long time and so the client has requested that if there is no contact in the next 14 days that the stay on the court order will be lifted and proceedings will continue. The letter then ended by advising that the client is still willing to set up a repayment plan etc and to get in touch with a proposal.

 

I was planning on doing nothing and waiting to see whether they are trying to call my bluff or not, i.e. wait to get a notice that the stay has been lifted. If this happens I'm assuming this means it goes to court? My other options are to write back just to confirm that I intend to defend this in line with the original defence i submitted, or secondly to make a very low settlement offer and see if they'll accept it just to stop the hassle....any thoughts welcome and appreciated

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Your choice...but dont be writing back informing them you intend to continue to defend.

 

So either continue to ignore and wait for an application or start a negotiation

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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read the letter properly..doesn't say WILL anything

 

as for the FOS

 

is the letter from an adjudicator or from the ombudsman himself?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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thanks for both your replies

 

the letter says the client has instructed them to apply to lift the stay after 14 days if no contact.

 

The FOS letter is from the adjudicator, I have replied to contend the decision and am currently waiting to hear back before I assume it will be referred to the ombudsman

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instructed not WILL

I can instruct my new puppy to sit

if is DOES is a totally differing matter..ignore them.

 

good on the FOS.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 8 months later...

open

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