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  1. #1

    Default Buying s/h car? - now found faults!!

    We are about to buy a 4x4 Shogun and have put down a deposit. The car has brand new tyres all round on the drive wheels.

    As an after thought I inquired about the condition of the spare tyre. It has 4mm of tread so legal however the tread is different to the tread of the new tyres. On a 4x4 it is important that the treads on the same axle are identical otherwise you could damage the diff.

    Can I reject the tyre as not being fit for purpose to use on the 4x4? We like the car as it is immaculate otherwise and is being sold by a reputable dealership and we were thinking of a 50/50 arrangement for a new tyre to be fitted.


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Buying s/h car? - now found faults!!

    I am not sure where you get the information that the tyres on the same axle should be 'identical'.
    They should certainly be of the same rating and similar tread, but identical would be difficult to achieve.

    You have a brand new tyre of the same make etc as the drive tyres, and you drive 10,000 miles and suffer a puncture.
    When you fit the spare it will not be 'identical' due to the wear over the 10,000 miles.

    It is true that a 4 wheel drive can suffer 'wind-up' if the tyres are not sufficiently similar but this is extreme,
    you are just as likely so experience it if all your driving is urban where the number of rounabouts means that there is a higher proportion of right turns so that the left wheels are going further than the right wheels!

    What you should do is treat the spare the same as you would a space saver on a non 4x4,
    reduce speeed and length of time used before having the drive tyre repaired.

    I suppose it would depend upon how much the dealer wishes to sell you the vehicle as to whether he would agree to such an arrangement.

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  3. #3

    Default Re: Buying s/h car? - now found faults!!

    Thanks.
    On the Jeep Grand Cherokee which was permanent AWD it was a big No No as told to me by the Jeep dealership and also information off Jeep forums.

    I assumed the same would apply to the Shogun?
    If dealer does want a 50/50 arrangement I will get it done myself for peace of mind as we tow a caravan and that may not be good if there is a difference in the wear and the tread of the spare tyre.

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Buying s/h car? - now found faults!!

    All I can say is my Subaru which has perm 4WD has a space saver wheel, so I can only assume it's not a universal no no to use a different wheel/tread configuration at least not for the short time to fix the original.


  5. #5

    Default Re: Buying s/h car? - now found faults!!

    My landy has normal road tyres so I dont see it as an issue but yes, if you have 4 knobbly off roading tryes and a normal tyre as a spare it does rather devalue the purchase so try negotiating a discount bearing this in mind and then replace it at your leisure. 50 off or whatever half of a new tyre costs seems reasonable as you are thinking but by changing it yourself rather than making them do it makes it easier for them to say yes


  6. #6

    Default Re: Buying s/h car? - now found faults!!

    The dealer was aware that we use the vehicle on the continent and in France I am told it is illegal to have tyres of different brands and treads on the same axle.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Buying s/h car? - now found faults!!

    Surfer, the following is a translation of the French Highway code in relation to tyres:-

    Legal obligations

    Since 1995, the Highway Code imposes the following rules:

    It is forbidden to ride on motor vehicles and their trailers:

    * tires of different structures, excluding any temporary spare tire;
    * different types of tires on the same axle, whether single-wheeled or dual-wheeled;
    * Tires with a load capacity index or a speed category symbol lower than the maximum capacities provided by the vehicle manufacturer.

    When the Highway Code prohibits mounting tires of different structures on the same axle, it means that the tires must be both:

    * same brand
    * same dimension
    * same category of use (eg road, snow, all terrain)
    * same structure: radial or diagonal
    * same speed code
    * same load capacity index

    The Highway Code also states that:

    * "The 1.6 mm wear indicator indicates the minimum legal gum height."
    * "The difference between the depth of the main grooves of two tires mounted on the same axle must not exceed 5 mm.

    My time as a Police Officer and subsequently time working within the Motor Trade gives me certain insights into the problems that consumers may encounter.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Buying s/h car? - now found faults!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gick View Post
    Surfer, the following is a translation of the French Highway code in relation to tyres:-

    Legal obligations

    Since 1995, the Highway Code imposes the following rules:

    It is forbidden to ride on motor vehicles and their trailers:

    * tires of different structures, excluding any temporary spare tire;
    * different types of tires on the same axle, whether single-wheeled or dual-wheeled;
    * Tires with a load capacity index or a speed category symbol lower than the maximum capacities provided by the vehicle manufacturer.

    When the Highway Code prohibits mounting tires of different structures on the same axle, it means that the tires must be both:

    * same brand
    * same dimension
    * same category of use (eg road, snow, all terrain)
    * same structure: radial or diagonal
    * same speed code
    * same load capacity index

    The Highway Code also states that:

    * "The 1.6 mm wear indicator indicates the minimum legal gum height."
    * "The difference between the depth of the main grooves of two tires mounted on the same axle must not exceed 5 mm.

    Okay so I am correct that I cannot have different brands and tread on the same axle?


  9. #9

    Default Re: Buying s/h car? - now found faults!!

    BTW the Mitsubishi hand book states the following;


    The hand book states Be sure to fit all 4 tyres and wheels of the same size and type. When replacement of any of the tyres or wheels is necessary, replace all of them” and in addition the manual specifically statesCaution; Always use tyres of the same size, same type, and same brand, and which have no wear differences. Using tyres which differ in size, type, brand or the degree of wear will cause excessive loading, resulting in possible damage to the drive system”.The part in bold is highlighted in the manual. Ref; Page 4.53 & Page 4.54.



  10. #10
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    Default Re: Buying s/h car? - now found faults!!

    Another good reason not to buy a 'Chelsea Tractor'

    Seriously, I wonder if this information is printed in their sales literature, or passed on by the salesman at point of sale?

    I think that I might be agrieved to find this out post purchase!

    Back to your OP, I would repeat my post #2 What you should do is treat the spare the same as you would a space saver on a non 4x4, reduce speeed and length of time used before having the drive tyre repaired. According to your above post, once the set of tyres has been run for even a modest time the use of a 'brand new' spare could be problematic [I]'and which have no wear difference['/I]s

    Hope you have deep pockets for replacement tyres.

    My time as a Police Officer and subsequently time working within the Motor Trade gives me certain insights into the problems that consumers may encounter.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Buying s/h car? - now found faults!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gick View Post
    Another good reason not to buy a 'Chelsea Tractor'

    Seriously, I wonder if this information is printed in their sales literature, or passed on by the salesman at point of sale?

    I think that I might be agrieved to find this out post purchase!

    Back to your OP, I would repeat my post #2 What you should do is treat the spare the same as you would a space saver on a non 4x4, reduce speeed and length of time used before having the drive tyre repaired. According to your above post, once the set of tyres has been run for even a modest time the use of a 'brand new' spare could be problematic [I]'and which have no wear difference['/I]s

    Hope you have deep pockets for replacement tyres.

    The dealer went 50/50 on the spare tyre which was done before collection however there is still an odd tyre on the front nearside. I only noticed it was a Dunlop tyre after purchase as the tread is very similar to the other 3 Bridgestones and the dealer had told that they had put 4 brand new tyres on the vehicle.

    Technically they were correct as they had taken the original spare and put it on the front nearside and then dumped 3 of the original tyres and replaced them with Bridgestones and put the best of the old tyres as the spare. The "odd" front nearside tyre is now the one that I am asking them to replace as per the manufacturers warning about odd tyres even though it is a brand new tyre. In the meantime I have swapped over the spare so the 4 wheels are now all Bridgestone and the spare is the Dunlop.

    If they do not want to replace it then I guess I will have to fork out the 106 for a new Bridgestone. The Dunlop AT20 has done less than 50 miles so maybe I cna sell it to recoup some of the money.


  12. #12

    Default Battery issue

    About 2 weeks ago we bought a Shogun vehicle second hand costing in excess of 16k. The dealer has been very good with sorting out a couple of problems.


    Unfortunately in the meantime the battery has decided to start playing up. It is still the original battery so just over 5 years old. Up to Saturday no issue starting the vehicle. On Saturday we were waiting outside the tyre fitter with the radio on and key on acc for about 25 minutes and when we came to start the vehicle it would not start and we had to get it jump started.


    This morning before starting the vehicle I checked the battery and it was reading 12.2v. I then started the vehicle and voltage changed to between 14.1 - 14.3v. I then switched on the fan, radio, lights, wipers etc and voltage dropped to about 12.9v. I switched off everything and removed keys from ignition. On checking battery it started at 12.9v dropping rapidly to about 12.7v within less than a minute. About 5 minutes later it had dropped to about 12.4v. Seems the battery is not holding the charge?



    As we have had the vehicle less than a month can we request that the dealer change the battery which will cost about 100? Thanks.


  13. #13

    Default Re: Battery issue

    Did you post about this car before, surfer?

    HB


  14. #14

    Default Re: Battery issue

    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee13 View Post
    Did you post about this car before, surfer?

    HB

    Yes but on a completely different subject. I would prefer to keep this thread separate from the other one. I am asking a question or advise before I approach the dealer.


  15. #15

    Default Re: Battery issue

    should like the alternator and the battery.
    5yrs is about the battery life on that type of vehicle
    but regardless if with the car running but with just the engine going
    the voltage should go to over 14v
    possibly you might need about 1000-1500 rpm

    if when you rev the vehicle the voltage goes above say 15v
    then the alternator is ok but the battery is stuffed

    what voltage do you get when you rev the shogun [know them well!!}

    dx

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  16. #16

    Default Re: Battery issue

    TBH I never revved it just did the load test
    The battery is 68ah and only a single battery and is the original battery as it has Mitsubishi written all over it.
    There looks to be a serial number on it that starts with 2004 as I do not know where to look for year of manufacture.

    However wondering if I am within my rights to ask dealer to replace battery which I suspect is on its last legs.
    I doubt very much if running the radio for about 25 minutes with the engine switched off should drain a healthy battery.
    BTW the screen was lit up while the radio was on.

    Also got a problem with the corroded pipe for the air con and spares are not available until October otherwise the vehicle is very good condition.
    Dealer has been excellent sorting out the one or two small issues.

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  17. #17

    Default Re: Battery issue

    date should be stamped on the battery

    but you are assuming the alternator is working correctly to assume you had a charged battery to drain from in the 1st place
    think about..

    voltages are you key here.

    why not get him to replace the battery and check the alternate whilst he is at it??

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Buying s/h car? - now found faults!!

    Shogun threads merged as they refer to the same car. It keeps all the background together.


    HB

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  19. #19

    Default Re: Buying s/h car? - now found faults!!

    Not sure who messed up the title as I certainly did NOT write the title as Buying s/h car - now faults found. The tyres were not faulty. I was asking a question about whether I could reject a tyre that could not be used on a car although it was road legal. So NOT a fault!
    Not sure why the battery thread was moved as it has NOTHING to do with tyres and was a query regarding whether I was within my rights to ask the dealer to change the battery. Again not truly a fault like the amended title. I wish that posters were consulted before a heading was changed to make it sound worse than it really is in real life.

    Just to update dealer has changed the tyres and also the battery without any quibble and is a first class dealer.


  20. #20

    Default Re: Buying s/h car? - now found faults!!

    What title would you like, Surfer? I'll change it for you.


    HB

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