Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
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    Default PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    Hi, I would greatly appreciate some assistance with this parking issue.
    Apologies that this is a bit long – have tried to summarise it.

    I live in a cul-de-sac (close) and until a few years ago the local authority tried to CPZ the close but found that it was private land belonging to my housing association. It is a small close with bays that residents park in.

    The local authority persuaded my housing association to get a private parking contractor which caused an almighty confusion between the residents and the housing association.

    To cut a long story short, PEA Parking got the contract. Signs were erected and one letter sent out about registering with PEA for a virtual permit.

    The housing association then stated that they would not get involved in any disputes with parking and disowned themselves from the matter.

    At that time, my son had a blue badge and I was given a mobile permit that I could put in my windscreen when parked.

    My car broke down on the close and I purchase another second hand one and informed the local housing office of the events of then I would be disposing of the old car. The then housing officer emailed PEA and c.c'd me into the email.

    Around the end of 2016 my housing association informed us of a consultation of merging with another housing association and this would be on-going for a while.

    Unbeknownst to us, the local office closed down as staff was restructured, no phones were answered for months - office telephone numbers were changed and all we were getting were mail shots about the merger continuing.

    At the same time, my permit expired and there was no appearance from PEA so we the residents assumed that they no longer had the contract
    - I had left my car outside my door for months when on leave and saw no parking contractor - let alone not being able to get through to head office to query where the new local office was.

    On 15 May 2018, I had a medical appointment for a minor op. I returned home and to my surprise and horror found a parking chargeicon Notice on my windscreen.

    I was shocked as they had not patrolled the close for over 1 year and even the neighbours were sure they were no longer the contractors and felt that when a new one got the contract, we would be informed.

    I appealed and sent evidence on the 28 May 2018 on the following grounds:

    1. The Notice mentions the old housing association's (landlord) name which no longer exists.

    2. My letter from my housing association dated 15 January 2018 re 'Change of Landlord' the old landlord ceased to exist on the 2 January 2018.

    3. Letter confirming that I pay service charges for the maintenance of the car park so can park in the bay.

    4. Their Notice is difficult to read as dyslexic and font is very small.

    PEA acknowledged receipt of my appeal on the 1 June 2018 stating that if I do not hear within 14 days
    – do not assume it has been cancelled.

    I had to contact the British Parking Association who stated that I should have had a decision within 36 days and they would contact them.

    I emailed PEA on the 12 July 2018 for a decision/POPLAicon reference number.

    PEA replied on 19 July 2018 – appeal rejected on the following grounds:

    - No displaying a valid permit and warning signs etc.

    - My old landlord still exists as the rebranding with the new landlord has not yet been completed.

    The parking restriction times were between 10.00am – 2.00pm Monday to Friday.

    There has been no written confirmation from PEA or the new landlord to confirm that they will continue to have the contract nor had I been contacted on the expiry of my son’s disabled mobile permit to change it to the virtual permit.

    Where do I stand? Any information appreciated.

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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

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  3. #3
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    Default Re:  PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    Thank you for your reply dk100uk, will read up post in link. Also curious, as I pay service charges for the maintenance of the car park to my landlord, do I not also have a contract to be able to park outside my house?


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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    you have supremacy of contract ..end of.

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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    Hi.


    PEA is a new name to me, are they based in Belfast?


    HB

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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    service charges are not proof of a contract to park,
    this would be a bit like if you lived in a ground floor flat but had to pay for the upkeep of the roof so dont rely too much on that,

    you need to consider what your tenancy says about the matter and whether you had ALLOCATED parking before the parking abndits were employed.
    Seeing the signage will help us help you as well, post up pictures.

    I wouldnt bother trying to reason with either the HA or the parking co, they dont have brains to fall back on when their inbuilt stupidity fails them.

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee13 View Post
    Hi.


    PEA is a new name to me, are they based in Belfast?


    HB
    Hi Honeybee13, yes there are. Sorry for delay in replying but have been trying to contact HA with no luck


  8. #8
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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    Hi ericsbrother,

    I had already tried contacting the HA and still waiting for various departments to call me back - nothing on their website either. See pictures attached - no times are mentioned on notices either.

    Attached Images

  9. #9
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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    What is 'Supremacy of Contract'? Can I use this?


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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    Shame you've already appealed. I'd be interested in hearing their grounds for requesting keeper information beyond a single letter saying "Pretty please, tell us who the driver was... Oh, go on... Pleeeeeease".


    As for "Supremacy of contract". What does your HA Tenancy agreement have to say about parking at the property? Forget what your landlord is called this week for now. What was written in to the tenancy agreement that you've signed is the important bit.

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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    If the Parking Cowboy came in after your tenancy commenced there is an almost certain supremacy of contract that they cannot override in your favour.

    The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!
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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    that is one of the reasons I said dont bother.

    Supremacy of contract is when you have an agreement such as a lease or tenancy that states you are entitled to use a particular allocated space. Once that is there then neither the landlord nor a crappy parking co can unilaterally change that so your lease/tenancy trumps whatever they say is in force for the rest of the common access land.

    The idea of permits is an administrative convenience so the parking noddys can see at a glance that the vehicle is allowed to be there.

    It is not for them to decide how you park either in your space or eve in your neighbours sopace, this isnt the common parts they are supposed to watch over but they will always try anything to chisel extra money out of anyone and dont care that they are wrong as you cant remove them form the site.

    You can howver do them for trespassing on to your space to ticket your vehicle so once you know that your space is yours only then you can set about winding them up by not displaying your permit, allowing your frieds to aprk there and so on. they will spend money chasing you for no reward.


    Quote Originally Posted by monyl View Post
    Hi ericsbrother,

    I had already tried contacting the HA and still waiting for various departments to call me back - nothing on their website either. See pictures attached - no times are mentioned on notices either.


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  13. #13
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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    Thanks everyone for your info. Found my tenancy agreement which states:

    'Parking and roadways
    (i) Not to block local roadways, and other vehicular access, and to keep them, and car parking spaces clear of unroadworthyicon and unlicensed vehicles and other obstructions.

    (ii) Where the property is an estate not to park any commercial vehicle licensed to carry loads above 7 hundredweight without the written consent of the Trust
    '

    When everyone first moved into the development, the development project manager told all the residents that we had been allocated a bay each but the numbers were never painted on them as they ran out of money and made us move in a week earlier so as not to pay for site security for an extra week.

    Thanks again, much appreciated. I have to put my appeal into POPLAicon this week.


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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    So, the changes they want to bring in are a change to your tenancy but hang on
    - they havent changed your tenancy, just bunged a few signs up and told people to get a permit and that isnt the same thing at all.

    In short, you do have superiority of contract and without chucking you out of your home they cant do anything that would make a difference.
    If they said they were going to boot you out just because they wanted to make some ill thought out parking scheme lawful rather than unlawful that would not impress a judge who had to listen to the arguments

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    Hi, still trying to put my appeal together for POPLAicon and found a PSC07 filed by PEA Parking on Companies House stating that Nationwide Controlled Parking Systems Ltd ceased to be a person with significant control in December 2016.

    Does this mean that PEA was running 2 companies at the same time and could use both names. Some of their annual returns name Nationwide Controlled Parking Systems Ltd holding 1 Ordinary Share Capital. Does this make them the actual 'owner' of the company? If so, what name should they be using when they tender for contracts?

    They also have a registered address in the UK, do they now come under UK law as they have registered with Companies House to be able to operate in the UK under UK law? I have uploaded the PSC07.

    Attached Files

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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    As far as civil law goes, I'm fairly sure it's pretty consistent throughout the UK, with a few minor "tweaks" for the Scots I don't think that civil law in the North of Ireland is that much different to the mainland.

    So yes, they would be operating under UK civil justice laws & rules.

    What they most certainly don't have is the POFA, so again, it's a shame that you've appealed this and more or less confirmed that you were the driver as there was no way that they could have come after you as the keeper.

    But, regardless of any of that, you've still most certainly got the benefit of supremacy, so if they want to be silly and waste lots of their own money trying to beat you at court, I'd let them carry on, just for the craic. They're going to lose if they try


    Go down the supremacy of contract route with POPLOL and as soon as PEA see your appeal, they're likely to fold as they're well aware of what will happen further down the line if they don't.

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    Hi, an update on my POPLAicon appeal. PEA have uploaded 3 documents as evidence.

    One document was full of pictures of my car and their signs.
    They have produced a contract commencing in 2013 but it is in the name of my current landlord who did not exist until this year.
    They have also stated that I have breached their contract not to have displayed a permit as their sign instructs.

    How do I proceed with regard to the contract as I do not believe that this contract was always in place as they were not seen for over 1 year?

    Any info will be helpful as I have 7 days to respond to POPLA.


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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    and you expected anything less?

    as you've found faults
    you don't need to do anything.
    as for their time scales ...tough on them,,

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  19. #19
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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    Hi dx100uk

    Thanks for your quick reply but I still need to reply to POPLAicon based on the their defence to having a contract with them.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: PEA parking windscreen PCN - changed car needed new residential permit parking....Help

    No you dont

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