Front loaded ppi of £2000 including interest taken out with a HFC loan in 1996.

At the time the advisor told me the PPI was mandatory.

For various reasons I never made a single payment.

In JUne 1997 I successfully defended HFC’s attempt to obtain a ccj, with the District Judge throwing out their case due to defects in HFCs’s calculations.

HFC subsequently sold the debt to TBI Financial Services.

TBI kept contacting me until the debt became statute barred in 2003.

Within the last two months I contacted HSBC, who own the HFC portfolio, to claim a refund on the PPI.

My argument here being the PPI was front loaded, and included in the debt sold to TBI therefore it is HSBC’s responsibility to put me back in the position I should be had I not taken out the PPI.

HSBC sent me a letter dated 16th July, making a “full and final offer”, agreeing to a refund of circa £2100.

On 20th July HSBC contacted me via telephone to say there had been a mistake as the ppi was cancelled when I defended the ccj in 1997.

When I made the point the front loaded ppi had still been included in the debt sold to TBI I was told this didn’t matter!

When I receive HSBC’s refusal letter I do intend to take this to the FCSA unless HSBC have a clawback option on the sale. Welcome views?

They still took you to court!

They still got some money back when they sold the debt to TBI

They still got more back via their bad debt business insurance

They still had the backhander PPI commission they got from selling the insurance for the underwriters.

if you cant get them on PPI directly go for a Plevin claim.

send them a free SAR.

But...." For various reasons I never made a single payment. " and " In June 1997 I successfully defended HFC’s attempt to obtain a CCJ, with the District Judge throwing out their case due to defects in HFCs’s calculations. "

If you never made a payment how can you be entitled to claim the PPI back ?

Andy

As the PPI was front loaded, in effect another loan plus interest, and added to my total debt sold to TBI. Albeit that debt is statue barred, it is not extinguished as tbi can ask for, but not enforce its repayment.

IF HFC has not included the PPI principal sum plus interest in the debt sold to TBI I would not be pursuing it.

As they did HSBC should either buy back the loan, and offset the PPI element if the sale contract permits, or make that payment to me.

My rationale there is I owe the money to TBI, so HSBC making the payment to me will return me to the position I was in prior to having the PPI loan forced upon me.

If the PPi had been a monthly % of the loan, rather than front loaded I would have no case.

Equally if HFC had not sold the debt I would have no case.

If they had removed the PPI principal sum and the interest Before selling it I would again have no case.

Interestingly one HSBC employee agreed with the logic, but said it was not “right” hence the revision of the offer.

I agree with them if you never paid anything back.....your not due a refund...if anything you still owe them the full loan ..less the PPI.

I'm of the same mind as above.

You only can reclaim money you paid on the ppi.

You have never paid anything so your not worse off.

In fact your better off by the principle sum you borrowed.

There is nothing in the FOS nor FCA ppi stuff thats says anything about ..you must have paid the loan off or youve only paid xx% of the loan..so you only get Xx% of a reclaim

Cheeky yes fo reclaim..but these fleecers should never had cha rged ppi to millions of people

And there is nothing in there to the contrary either.

Yes its missold but you get back what you have paid in. Plus intrest.

That's how they arrive at a settlement figure otherwise its considered betterment.

no it doesn't say that

it says the ppi premiums + interest

nowhere does it say 'what you have paid'

ive known 100's of people get back the full PPI charged even when they'd defaulted or only paid 1 month etc etc.

I'm sorry but you need to put a source to that statement.

Specifically a loan with miss sold ppi. Never made any payments. Loan defaulted Claimed all ppi back as cash

The PPI was paid upfront and HSBC (HFC) chose to sell the debt, including the PPI and associated interest to a venture capital firm. TBI paid for the debt, including the PPI front loaded element and interest. They can continue to ask for it to be repaid, albeit without legal enforcement. TBI do not draw a distinction between the PPI and capital loan, they simply want the full sum repaid.

I therefore believe I can seek redress from HSBC who missold the PPI and received payment for it from a third party. If I was making payments to TBI then I am sure I would be advised to seek redress from HSBC. The facts are the PPI was missold, and it has been settled (bought) by a third party. The original creditor did not reduce the outstanding balance by the frontloaded PPI and interest prior to its sale. HSBC admit the debt sold included the PPI, albeit they say this therefore resulted in the cancellation of said policy. TBI want full repayment so who should settle the PPI element?

My position is that should be HSBC either via a clawback agreement if it exists (which I am 99% certain it does not), or by paying the sums concerned to me. I can then decide if I wish to give money to the venture capitalists concerned. I am sorry if I come across as somewhat belligerent, but I know this principle has been successfully applied in at least one other case of which I am aware.

But neither HSBC or TBI can go near a court room to claim it...the debt dates back to 1997...21 years ago.....its no longer on your credit files...so its irrelevant whether the figure is loaded with + 2K PPI or not

You wont be paying it...so why do you need it adjusting...TBI balance sheet is irrelevant to you.

Unless of course you wanted to settle the debt from a moral stance?

Andy

Being completely honest Andy I simply wish to be as unreasonable with the bank as they were with me some time ago.

cant agree more

they were a terrible lot.

I distinctly remember one time in the late 80's

was walking thru a local shopping centre [very new]

was spotted with 2 young kids in a push chair

was taken to their newly open loan shark jail taking up almost 1/3rd of the top floor

told I must now take out PPI on the 3 products I already had

even remember her name...cow!!

if only we knew better then..

From my perspective at least a very pleasing update, with HSBC having now made a payment of around £2100 into my current account.

In the end they accepted my argument ppi had been missold, the cost of the front loaded premium and associated interest had been met when they sold the total debt to TBI, and if there was no clawback agreement in place redress should be made to me. The only disappointment was no 8% interest, as HSBC’s position remains that is only applicable in the case of paid premiums. I am somewhat tempted to test that assertion with FOS.

I would suspect this was a flexi loan plus

so you wouldn't get the 8% as its treated as a credit card

its the right time for that...

good win