Apologies this is a long story.....

Bought a used car from large flashy Range Rover garage on 31/03/18 for £18,500.

Husband gets train to work and I walk so we hadn’t really used the car much at the start but noticed something wasn’t right so called trader.

They offered to look at the car but at their chosen garage which was 30 miles away and we had to take it there.

Husband took the day off work to drive it there and was given what I can only describe as an old banger as a courtesy car.

Garage repaired the car (replaced Haldex?) but couldn’t find all the problems we had listed

(it got stuck in reverse occasionally and didn’t automatically change gear smoothly and got stuck in first gear once)

we drove another 30 miles there and back to collect it.

A few days later the fault returned.

To be honest there were a few other things we weren’t happy about by this point,

rear camera had stopped working,

one of the rear passenger doors wouldn’t open.

Now we’re out of pocket and fed up with the whole situation and called the garage to tell them that the problem had returned and we wanted to return the car as we had only had it for 2 months.

The garage offered to repair it again and refused the request for a refund.

We wrote to the garage, quoting the Consumer Rights Act and that we didn’t have to accept a second repair and that they should refund us.

They refused.

We then got an independent check by the RAC (cost £300) who found problems with the gearbox and confirmed rear camera, door was faulty.

A day later I drafted an email to them (I always send Rec del letter too) explaining that we’d got it checked out and would now like to request a refund again. I also phoned the rmi to start Mediation as apparently if you take court action, a judge won’t be happy if you’ve not tried this first.

However, before I sent the email yesterday (sat 14/7) I got a phone call from my husband saying the car had broken down.

Couldn’t get it started

Called the RAC and 6 hours later they stuck it on a truck and brought it back to our house.

It is now on our drive,

we can’t do anything with it as it won’t start.

What do we do now?

Go straight to legal proceedings?

Call the flashy garage people and tell them to come and get it, which I reckon they won’t!

And advice greatly appreciated

It will be helpful if you can include paragraph spaces in your posts because it is extremely difficult for people to wade through a solid block of text and it tends to put people off when otherwise they would be pleased to help you.

You bought the car on 31 March. Please can you tell us when you first invoked the consumer rights act.

Where did you hear that judges don't like it if you haven't tried mediation? This is not correct.

Which company did you buy it from?

Thank you for the advice re posting.

Re mediation, citizens advice told me to try every possible way of a resolution before court action as the judge will expect you to have tried this beforehand.

In a recorded delivery letter on 21/6, I requested a refund and quoted the consumer rights act.

The garage is Saxton 4 x 4 in Chelmsford Essex.

You are expected to “reasonably consider” mediation.

That doesn’t mean you must use mediation.

Examples of where it would be reasonable to consider mediation but decide it would be pointless or add unreasonable expense would include:

a) where the cost of mediation is disproportionate to the value of the claim, or

b) where the position of the parties is so entrenched that mediation is unlikely to provide a resolution.

“I’m entitled to a refund under the CRA, and the garage has flat out refused” could fall under b)

There is nothing to stop you issuing the claim and then saying you’d be happy for it to be stayed while mediation is tried, either.

On the basis of what you say, their attitude is quite extraordinary because this is certainly not the kind of customer service one would expect to accompany the sale of a high-value second-hand vehicle from a company which depends on its reputation.

It seems to me that you have tried quite hard to get things sorted out and so you are probably left with the only option of threatening legal action and then bringing the legal action. On the basis of what you say, your chances of success are better than 95%.

The only point to bear in mind is that because you would be suing for a sum substantially greater than £10,000, your claim would not be a small claim, it would be allocated to the fast track. Because your chances of success are so high, this shouldn't be a problem and it shouldn't trouble you. However you should be aware that whereas with a small claim if you lose then you don't have to pay the winners costs, as soon as you come off the small claims track then if you lose you then become liable the costs of the other side. Of course it also means that they become liable for your costs should they lose – which seems to me to be highly likely.

The issue seems to be extremely simple and so I think you can easily do this on yourself rather than have to bother with a solicitor. If you did instruct a solicitor then you would incur more costs – which would be partly refunded in the event that you won. However, a solicitor would begin very cautiously by writing letters and getting you involved in some protracted correspondence whereas it seems to me that you are at a stage where you need to show a very positive and robust reaction to their refusal. That means that you should send them a letter before action giving them 14 days to sort the matter out – to give you your refund and to collect the car – after which you will issue proceedings in the County Court.

From what you say, there is not a great chance they will respond positively to your 14 day threat and so you would then have to issue the papers. Once you did issue the papers it seems to me that there would be quite a high chance that they would realise how serious you are and they would pay you out. However, you never know – they might be really stupid and decide to force you into court for a hearing. The whole thing could go on for longer than six months.

If you want to take them to court then I would suggest that you write out a very clear statement of everything that has happened and making your position clear that you consider that they have now exhausted their options under the Consumer Rights Act and that unless they provide you with your refund and collect the car within 14 days that you will begin a County Court claim against them and without any further notice.

You might also want to detail any other losses you might have suffered – if you have incurred ancillary expenses as a result of the vehicle's failings. You can tell Saxton that at present you are prepared simply to accept the refund – but if you go to court then you will also be claiming for these ancillary expenses and also the reasonable cost of storage of the vehicle because it is currently not able to be moved and it is occupying your driveway. You can also point out to them that you will be claiming the cost of the insurance for the period for which it is still in your possession and therefore technically still your responsibility.

If this is the way you want to go then you should also start calculating all the amount of time you spend preparing the case, learning about your rights and generally bringing the matter to court. You will be able to claim a litigant in person fee which is currently about £18 an hour. (Check out the actual figure). You can claim this money because it would be a fast track case. You wouldn't be able to claim it if it was a small claim.

You will also have to check out the cost of bringing a claim of this value. Don't forget you would be bringing a claim for the cost of the vehicle, reasonable cost of storage – maybe £10 per day, any other losses or expense to which you have been put. Because you won't know how much longer you'll be left with the vehicle, your claim will be drafted to reflect a storage cost of £10 per day and continuing – final value to be notified to the court at judgement – but total claim not exceeding (say) £21,000. It will be on the basis of this figure that you would calculate the court fee.

You would need to notify them of the storage charge in advance - in your LBA

Please ask us any questions and if you want some help preparing this then we are happy to help you draft the claim. It doesn't need any special wording. It is very straightforward.

If you do send the letter before action, then only do so if you are prepared to carry out your threat. Don't bluff because you will only lose credibility. If you tell them that you are going to start a claim in 14 days – that is exactly what you must do. Spend the intervening period finding out the steps involved in bringing a County Court claim and also open up an account with MoneyClaim online. It's very easy. You will probably find it very interesting as well and you will acquire transferable skills so that you can then go on suing everybody and anybody who gets in your way in the future. Oh how we laughed

Lots of good reviews for this company around the Internet – but some extremely disturbing ones here: –

https://saxton-4x4.****edconsumer.com/review.html

And also on Google reviews, there are a huge amount of one star and two star reviews

https://www.google.fr/search?biw=1920&bih=984&ei=smtLW5W8M5GvgQbJlrTYCA&q=saxton+4x4+&oq=saxton+4x4+&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l3j0i67k1j0l6.4243.4243.0.4475.1.1.0.0.0.0.52.52.1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.52....0.tm_DTVFBwmY#lrd=0x47d8ea35415e57e5:0x7e57fe63b0643fd,1,,,

Thank you for an extremely informative and helpful response

My husband called them this afternoon and they said (I quote) “well if you buy a used car you should expect things to go wrong” - quite unbelievable really!

Apparently a manager is calling my husband tomorrow but he will tell him refund us or we’ll go to court. I will send a letter before action (recorded delivery), which I have already drafted, and let the fun begin!

Please read our customer services guide and implement the advice there. You should get these kinds of comments recorded. Try to do it before you receive the phone call tomorrow. It's very important

You might find it helpful if you post up the draft of your LBA

Hi

If the car was purchased via finance then also ensure to get the finance company involved and inform them of everything that has happened right down to your RAC Inspection Report.

Saxton 4X4 Limited

Widford Industrial Area Westway

Chelmsford

CM1 3BH

Directors: Mr Alan Austin, Mr Danny Austin, Mr Glen Austin - All Appointed 21st August 2003

Secretary: Janice Catherine Austin - Appointed 21st August 2003

Company Number: 04873983

Companies House: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04873983

Endole: https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/04873983-saxton-4x4-limited?page=overview

Open Corporates: https://opencorporates.com/companies/gb/04873983

BizDb: http://www.bizdb.co.uk/company/saxton-4x4-limited-04873983/

FCA Interim Permissions Reference Number: 545320

If a credit card was used to pay any part of the amount then you could use section 75 of the CCA. If in addition the vehicle is on finance then the liability is with the finance company to resolve the issue as the vehicle belongs to the finance company.

We paid for the car using a credit card. We have contacted barclaycard, however, they have already warned the process is extremely long winded and relatively new to them so it didn’t fill me with much confidence to be honest.

We paid for the car using a credit card. We have contacted barclaycard, however, they have already warned the process is extremely long winded and relatively new to them so it didn’t fill me with much confidence to be honest.

What nonsense from Barclaycard as they try every trick in the book to squirm out of their obligations and I am speaking from experience!

We paid for the car using a credit card. We have contacted barclaycard, however, they have already warned the process is extremely long winded and relatively new to them so it didn’t fill me with much confidence to be honest.

Relatively new to Barclaycard

Its 47 years old.

In 1971 Edward Heath's Conservative government received Lord Crowther's Report of the Committee on Consumer Credit (often referred to as 'The Crowther Report'). The report (actually started whilst the government of Harold Wilson was in office) took two years to write and made far reaching recommendations for harmonising consumer credit legislation in the UK. This started with an overarching definition of credit, which they took to mean '...deferment of payment for goods delivered or services rendered at once or the straight lending of money...') and subsequently shaped the drafting of the bill which later became enshrined in statute as the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Andy

you dont say what the car is, how old it is and how many miles on the clock. £18.5k is a lot of money but it is relative so a car that was £100k new and has been thrashed it isnt a lot and faults to be expected. More detail on what is wrong would also be helpful, certain things can just go like clutch but others will give a warning they are on the way out and a dealer should know the signs.

you dont say what the car is, how old it is and how many miles on the clock. £18.5k is a lot of money but it is relative so a car that was £100k new and has been thrashed it isnt a lot and faults to be expected. More detail on what is wrong would also be helpful, certain things can just go like clutch but others will give a warning they are on the way out and a dealer should know the signs.

Quite right ericsbrother. As usual the site team steam in. It could be a Range Rover Evoque, Sport or Range Rover. Doubt it would be a Velar at this price. OP needs to state exactly which Range Rover it is, age and mileage and service history. I know the Evoque has had problem with the Haldex. If the car has a full service history they might get some recourse through the dealer network if approached in the correct way. The rear drive unit also suffers from contamination with left over machinings and water ingress.

An independant dealer won't know this unless they subscribe to the Land Rover Technical Bulletin scheme. I would suggest the best course of action is for the OP to state exactly what the car is and for the site team to ask the same said questions before steaming in with the tiresome legal advice where proper experts can give an opinion as to the fault and let the OP get his car fixed. This approach has been very successful in the past especially with VW 3 cylinder heads.

It totally negates having to go through the courts.

People need to bear in mind that a car is bought for a reason and even new ones go wrong but to steam in with what some site members post will just get the vendors back up which is not helpful to the OP in sorting out the issue though is correct in legal rights but not law.

No doubt this post will be censured or deleted as usual.

Hang on a minute here...

I bought a used car for £18,500, it wasn’t serviced before it was sold to us, it had a fault in the first 30 days, they fixed it (at a significant inconvenience to us). The fault returned almost straight away. It has numerous other faults but we only know this through our independent check, their garage found nothing. And now the thing has broken down.

Called garage on Sunday and they actually suggested my husband might have thrashed the engine himself?!! And that he may have caused the damage. He asked that a manager called him back as we now have no car and a family to run about and guess what? No one called us back yesterday. So now we’ve had enough.

I fail to see what any of the above has to do with the way we’ve been treated. We traded in a well looked after car that was serviced regularly and was in perfect condition and bought a car that’s riddled with problems and the garage couldn’t care less about it.

Put yourself in our shoes and tell me you would give them a chance to keep fixing it. The Haldex unit was incorrectly replaced, it’s the gearbox that is the problem according to RAC.

Don’t want a telling off thank you, I want my £18,500 back!

... and you are quite right of course.

I'm afraid that Heliosuk tends to favour the industry and seems to think that when a consumer buys a vehicle, they are obliged to accept all of the design flaws which are inherent in that vehicle because the manufacturer simply hasn't thought it out.

There is no doubt that under consumer law – and also morally – when you pay your money, whether it is for a new item or a second-hand item, that you are entitled to expect that it will function satisfactorily and for a reasonable period of time.

Thank you. I am already wound up to the point of no return.

I couldn’t care less about the Land Rover Bulletin Scheme or the evoques historic problems.

I bought a pile of crap for £18,500 and I want my money back

Section 75 is the best course of action imo

In the process of doing that also, thank you

but that might be the going rate for a scrapper so unless you can satisfy a court that it doesnt reflect a fair price for its age and condition you may well be told that you arent getting any money.

Now, it then boils down to did you reject the vehicle in time? If so, straightforward matter and you can use S75 to that end.

.

Thank you. I am already wound up to the point of no return.

 

I couldn’t care less about the Land Rover Bulletin Scheme or the evoques historic problems.

 

I bought a pile of crap for £18,500 and I want my money back

but that might be the going rate for a scrapper so unless you can satisfy a court that it doesnt reflect a fair price for its age and condition you may well be told that you arent getting any money.

 

Now, it then boils down to did you reject the vehicle in time? If so, straightforward matter and you can use S75 to that end.

 

 

.

Mostly nonsense

Do you mean that the court would side with the dealer because of the age and mileage on the car and that we should expect it to go wrong?

I’m not being sarcastic, I’m actually interested to know what the chances are of us actually getting a refund via Court.

We reported the initial problem within 30 days and requested a refund within 3 months after problem was apparently fixed but returned.

I think that is precisely what he is suggesting.

I think you would be best off disregarding that idea. I think the situation is clear as I have already pointed out in a previous post. Your chances of success are extremely high. You are entitled to have a vehicle which will be of satisfactory quality and remain in that condition for a reasonable period of time given the price and claims made about the vehicle at the time of sale. I can't imagine any court finding that it was reasonable for the car to have developed defects within the first 30 days – and of course, the new statute – The Consumer Rights Act 2015 also is suggestive of exactly the same position because it pretty well guarantees you a full refund if any defect materialises within the first 30 days.

I think the comments you are receiving to the contrary are highly unsettling and destabilising. Somewhere on your webpage you have an ignore button which allows you simply not to see comments made by certain members of this forum. You may decide that you want to use it. - https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/profile.php?do=ignorelist