Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
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    Default Received court summons - supposed less than 1.6mm tread

    I have received a court summons for having a tire under 1.6mm.
    I was pulled over in February at a roadside checkpoint in London late in the evening after dark.

    Tfl Vosa and the police where there and as I got out the car I heard the tfl enforcement officer say to the vosa inspector that this car would be good to find someone wrong with.

    The vosa inspector promptly said how about a tyre and proceeded to inspect my tyre and stated that it was low.

    I have no way of proving this now but I did at the time feel that no matter what I was going to fail something.

    They called over the police officer that read me my rights and took all my details and I informed the officer that every morning I run my fingers in the groove and showed him how and found there was plenty of tread.
    The vosa inspector said not further into the tire.

    I was informed by the office that 3 things might happen

    1 the team would look at my record and if I had no previous incidents They would take no further action

    2 issue me with a fpn

    3 take me to court.


    I decided to sign the slip as I thought considering he saw how I checked the tyre and having no previous incidents they would give me a warning.

    The police vosa and tfl let me carry on driving home and told me to go get the tyre changed ASAP and have a new mot done even though they clearly knew I have a tyre that was under the limit in their opinion.
    This I did the next day.

    Since then I have not heard anything until I got a court summons.
    I was shocked to see they had not decided to take no further action and even more shocked to see that they say in the document they sent me a fpn.

    I never received this fpn at all and have gone through all the mail I have for last few months in case I missed it and I definitely have not received it.

    I pulled out the paperwork I have from the evening and noticed the vosa inspector put down that he inspected a Mercedes and I have a Bmw and after reading the police statement it does not state all the facts of the night and the photo they submitted is dark as black and white and looks like the tread is fine.

    My question is

    do I plead guilty as I am not completely sure that my tyre was that low,
    they let me drive on with a alleged illegal tyre,
    not receiving the fpn
    and because of the inconsistency in the paperwork or plead not guilty and state all these facts.

    The police office recorded the conversation and I am guessing videoed the tyre
    can I request a copy before I decide or do I have to plead not guilty first

    Please ask me any questions and I will reply

    Many thanks for your help

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Received court summons - supposed less than 1.6mm tread

    Did they take your details from you??
    And
    Is the V5C correctly registered at your address??

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    Default Re: Received court summons - supposed less than 1.6mm tread

    Spaced. Retitled & moved to motoring offences forum

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Received court summons - supposed less than 1.6mm tread

    If you intend disputing the matter you may struggle.

    The prosecution will produce evidence (in the form of the police officer's and/or VOSA officer's statements).

    You will have no realistic way to dispute this.

    If you want to dispose of it by pleading guilty you should attend court and do so.
    You should then explain that you did not receive the offer of a Fixed Penalty and request the court sentences you in line with the Fixed Penalty Equivalent.

    They have specific guidance which suggests they can do so if the consider it appropriate. It says this:

    "Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender,

    the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed.

    The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances."


    You will find that as well as the fine, the offence carries three penalty points.

    As an aside, is your matter being heard under the "Single Justice" Procedure?
    (If it is, what you have will be headed "Single Justice Procedure Notice").
    If it is, you cannot attend that hearing.

    You can plead guilty by post (including your request to be sentenced at Fixed Penalty level).

    However, to be sure your request is heard and understood you should appear in person.
    If you want to do that you must ask for a full court hearing.

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  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post
    Did they take your details from you??
    And
    Is the V5C correctly registered at your address??
    Yes they took down my details and car is registered at my home address so there is no reason for me not receiving the fpn. I have only a week to put in my plea.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Received court summons - supposed less than 1.6mm tread

    Do you intend contesting the matter?
    If so then enter a not guilty plea and a trial date will be set (though there may be a preliminary hearing beforehand).

    Once you have entered your NG plea you will be served with the evidence the prosecution intends to rely upon to convict you.
    You will then have plenty of time to work on your defence as the matter will not go to trial for many weeks.

    If you are going to plead guilty then my earlier suggestion is the way to go.
    Now that the matter is in the court process it can only be dealt with by the court.

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Received court summons - supposed less than 1.6mm tread

    Hi.
    I am really not sure what to do.
    This is the officers statement
    . I would like to see the footage to make a informed plea but looks like I have to plead not guilty but that could make it worse for me

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    http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/...pslhudtrzv.jpg

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Received court summons - supposed less than 1.6mm tread

    You're a taxi driver. Correct?
    You therefore should have a better understanding of keeping your vehicle roadworthy. As seen as you are a professional driver.

    You know that you need at least 1.6mm across your tyre. a
    You had .98 on one side of your tyre.
    Could be tracking issues.
    Could be under inflation.

    This was measured by the authorised technician.
    This was also witnessed by the police who turned on his BWC.
    You were also cautioned.
    I dont know under what scenario your thinking of what plea to enter.

    The statement by the officer clearly outlined what could happen.
    Yes they can allow you to drive straight home. is
    It was only 3 miles and it was to not inconvenience you any more than necessary.

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  9. #9
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    Default

    Hi yes I am a taxi driver.
    I know the importance of my tyres as they the only part of my car that meets the road so EVERY MORNING I run my fingers in the tyre tread to feel if my tyres are close to the guides that are manufactured into all tyres.

    When they checked it was pitch black and the inspector checked my tyres before I had even closed my car door to come to the pavement.

    He called over the officer and said the tyre was under 1.6 which is when I said I check them this morning and showed him how I checked my tyres and he agreed that there is was over 3 mm. he then said that the tyre must of been over inflated at some point.
    If you look at the photo you cannot make out how low the tread was.

    I don’t particularly want to plead not guilty as I don’t actually know if it was under 1.6.
    I question his reading though as he could not even record my car correctly.

    I own a BMW and he recorded it as a Mercedes which could be an error on his part but that also means he may of made an error taking the reading.

    I have attached his report and you can see this

    http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/...psznbbsxpw.jpg

    As for the caution the office does not put in his statement that he said that they would look at my history and if I have no previous (which I don’t) they will probably just give me a warning

    Further more the police records state a fpn was sent to me and that I did not respond. Well the fact is if they sent this I NEVER received it and now I am in a position of having to go to court either to defend my case or plead mitigation.

    Lastly the officer states I had 3 miles left to get home but is actually over 10 miles and yes it saved me inconvenience but if they knew that my tread depth was below 1.6 all the agencies were happy for me to carry on with an alleged illegal tyre.

    They actually said to take it to a tyre shop and get the tyre changed which contradicts the statement saying it was to get home.

    I just want some advice on what I can do to not make my situation worse but fair


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Received court summons - supposed less than 1.6mm tread

    Central core and inner left parts of the tyre was illegal. .89 or .98mm (cant remember) so tyre is illegal.
    You stated to the officer that the outer part was legal and they went on to explain how it was not.

    Personally id take the fine and 3points.
    You could plead guilty and present your mitigations.
    You could also plead not guilty and present your tyre as evidence.
    No doubt you saved it as seen as at the time you were told you were going to be reported for the offence and as seen as your adamant that you checked them that morning, like you do evey morning, and it was legal.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Received court summons - supposed less than 1.6mm tread

    The outer part might have been fine, it's just a shame that the rest of the tyre wasn't really

    The law requires car tyres to have a minimum tread depth of 1.6mm in a continuous band around the central 3/4 of the tyre. So the outside of the tyre could be 5mm of tread for all it matters, but if the central band of the tyre (the 3/4 mentioned) is less than 1.6mm at any point, the tyre is illegal I'm afraid.

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Received court summons - supposed less than 1.6mm tread

    I would like to see the footage to make a informed plea…
    There are two issues with that:

    Firstly, unless the prosecution intend to rely on it (it seems unlikely they will) you will not automatically get it. It will probably be listed on a “schedule of unused material”. Obtaining such material – especially video footage - for a Magistrates’ Court hearing is notoriously difficult and all you will be provided with to enter your plea is the “initial Details of the Prosecution Case” (IDPC). You virtually have that now with the two statements you have and you will be expected to enter a plea based on that.

    Secondly, what exactly do you hope to gain from it anyway? You have the two statements which clearly state how the prosecution will seek to get you convicted.

    I don’t particularly want to plead not guilty as I don’t actually know if it was under 1.6.
    Very wise. The prosecution have evidence which shows your tyre was defective. You don’t know whether it was or not so how do you hope to provide a defence?

    I own a BMW and he recorded it as a Mercedes which could be an error on his part but that also means he may of made an error taking the reading.
    Yes, good luck with that. Let me know when your trial is as I look forward to seeing you cross-examining the witness and convincing the court that, because he made a typographical error, he cannot be relied upon to measure a tyre tread accurately.

    Further more the police records state a fpn was sent to me and that I did not respond. Well the fact is if they sent this I NEVER received it and now I am in a position of having to go to court either to defend my case or plead mitigation.
    Mitigation are facts that lessen the seriousness of an offence. You don't seem to have any. I told you how to deal with the fact that you did not receive a FPN in my earlier post.

    …but looks like I have to plead not guilty but that could make it worse for me
    Indeed it would. In the (very likely) event you are convicted you face a fine of a week’s net income, a surcharge of 10% of the fine (minimum 30) and at least 300 in prosecution costs (but possibly up to 620, depending how much work is needed to prepare the matter for trial). You seem to be fishing around for escape routes from what is probably a slam-dunk conviction. My advice is to enter a guilty plea and ask the court to sentence you at the fixed penalty level as I have already suggested.



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