go ring HFC and ask

go ring HFC and ask

Now part of HSBC. She's spoken to them, They confirm a payment was made in January 2017 - now they've explained it was a different name she was paying to... Beneficial Bank. She didn't realise this was all part of the same thing. It was defaulted in 2008. From what she remembers she agreed to make small payments, but for some reason they were stopped after Jan 2017.

Erm, guess that's the blu tak giving way...

well as said before

they'll have a VERY hard job in producing any enforceable paperwork for an HFC debt of that age

99% were all shredded when the PPI scandal broke

what type of credit was it loan or card?

Will need further help in constructing something as a defence then as she's found out she was paying up to Jan 2017 so the SB part is null really.

It was a loan with Beneficial bank.

well that all depends if they cough with any paperwork hilly.

but the bones are the same

literally 1000's of thread here already to be reading up on.

No sign of CCA from Restons, can't really submit a defence if we don't have confirmation a debt exists.

A bit like someone walking up to you in the street and demanding money really.

Unless they can prove you should pay them...

But, final day for submitting defence to Northampton and really stuck on what to say.

Obviously she does not want to give them ammo by agreeing she owes this money, but have a feeling she does not have any choice.

you send the std holding/no paperwork defence in 1000's of threads here already.

you send the std holding/no paperwork defence in 1000's of threads here already.

So she goes to court website and enters

ack [{AOS BOX] the claim

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked

for today, then has time to post a copy of this to Restons:

I'll repeat, this is my step-daughter's problem,

I was only trying to help her and she's been waiting to see if the CCA came back before she did anything.

I'm not a well person these days and can only spend so long reading before I get a blinding headache.

Restons CPR X.pdf

ive removed your attachment

please read its top red line regarding posting in the open forum.

the defence is not due for weeks

but as said in post 30

ive removed your attachment

please read its top red line regarding posting in the open forum.

 

the defence is not due for weeks

 

but as said in post 30

Sorry, I'm just going blind with it all now and have yet to find a thread that goes through the "std holding/no paperwork defence" mentioned. I've read loads that discuss statute barred, some that were for credit cards, one that ended in a Tomlin order but nothing that makes sense now and it's all going into a blur.

Step-daughter is no good with this sort of thing. She is all for just admitting the lot and trying to make a payment plan. At £20 a month it would take over 15 years, and I doubt that would be accepted.

She tells me she was paying this, but thought it was a totally different matter. The name of the bank has changed several times and she didn't really know what this particular claim was about. She thought it was something else that she had not heard about for many years.

What seems to have happened is that the standing order was cancelled when she went overdrawn, and she didn't take any notice of a letter from the bank at the time, then forgot.

I need to take a break from this as my head is throbbing. I'm getting stressed and it's not even my problem...

Rather than do nothing, I'll get her to do the online bit with the court, rather than leave it too late to submit that bit.

this is what you should have done as soon as the claimform landed

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CCA Request running to the claimant

leave the £1PO blank and uncrossed

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

.

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

….

you don't need to be doing or sending anything else to anyone until the 28th when the defence is due;

which will be like this:

POC

.

1.The claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant(s) under a contract between the Defendant(s) and [original creditor] dated on or about etc etc

2. And assigned to the claimant on etc etc

.

.

Defence

.

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

.

2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with [original creditor]. I am unaware of what alleged debt the claimant refers to having failed to adequately particularise its claim.

.

3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I do not recall receiving any Notice of Assignment from either assignor or assignee pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.

.

4. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has declined to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

.

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show and evidence that a Default Notice was issued pursuant to sec87.1 CCA1974;

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

.

5. On receipt of this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have declined to comply to my section 78 request and remain in default and with regards to my CPR 31.14 request. Therefore the claimant in their none compliance to my requests have frustrated my attempts to clarify their claim and against pre action protocol should be considered when the question of costs arise.

.

6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

.

7. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

.

8. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

.

Thank you.

She has sent the CCA and the CRP request too. She had not logged on to MCOL but will do so today.

I'll then get her to get the defence ready, does that go by letter or by email attachment ? I don't have the paperwork here, doing a lot of this when I see her.

twill need adapting to ensure it meets the POC.

you file the defence the same way you do AOS

on the MCOL website as detailed above.

but NOT until the 28th or a day or 2 before

No sign of CCA from Restons, can't really submit a defence if we don't have confirmation a debt exists.

A bit like someone walking up to you in the street and demanding money really.

Unless they can prove you should pay them...

 

But, final day for submitting defence to Northampton and really stuck on what to say.

Obviously she does not want to give them ammo by agreeing she owes this money, but have a feeling she does not have any choice.

The whole idea is to make them work for this - even if it appears you have no chance. They don't necessarily need to prove anything - it's for you to defend the claim by challenging their right to any monies. If you read the example defence that DX posted below, you'll see that it challenges the fundamental components necessary before the claimant has a legal right to be awarded anything. Forget about whether the the amount has been received as part of a loan or whatever, or that payments have been made - instead focus on whether the claimant is compliant with the laws/legislation under which they can seek judgement.

If nothing else, defending costs them and will most likely create scope to negotiate favourable terms on paying it back over a period of time (likely to be a lesser amount than what they're claiming too). I've only skimmed over the thread, but I'd be inclined to pay heed to DX's suggestion that there is unlikely to be an original agreement or paperwork in existence. That's a bit of a stumbling block.

Stick in there and concentrate on creating a suitable defence. There will be a lot of hoops that you can make the claimant jump through if they are to see this through - you probably just don't know it yet, but you will if you read up and keep posting here.

POC submitted as per post 36 with alterations as required.

Restons sent the postal order back, she sent it to them, not Cabot. Re-sent with correct details but no response as yet, to that or the CPR request.

Watching and waiting...

you don't submit a POC..you submit a defence...

Yes, my boo-boo, it was the defence. Not good here, have lapses.

Can you post a copy of the defence you submitted here for reference.

Regards

Andy

It was as post #36 with the dates and details changed to suit. I don't have it here, step-daughter rang the changes in a text file I gave her and did the MCOL stuff herself.

Step-daughter has had standard letters from Cabot & Restons following filing the defence.

Cabot don't have the CCA but have requested a copy, usual 12 weeks etc.

Restons say she would have been provided with all documents requested during the lifetime of the account.

Within their waffle they say that the POC "...contains sufficient information in order for you to understand what the claim relates to, namely:" and in the list there is "d) the name of the original creditor...". THey claim that to be HFC Bank.

Step-daughter has never had an account with HFC Bank.

She had an account with a totally different company, as far as she is concerned. She know nothing of a debt to HFC Bank.

Waiting for them to decide what to do next...

std cpr reply restons send to everyone

std CCA reply cabot sent to everyone.

so what bank does she think this is then?

so what bank does she think this is then?

She had a loan account many years ago with Beneficial Bank PLC.

She does not think she ever heard about them changing name or being merged etc.

Does not have paperwork any more as she 'lost it' when she stopped paying via CCCS, and that would have been a long time ago.

At some point she had a 'demand' (as she put it) to pay 'something' so she started paying £20 a month, she cannot recall the DCA involved or what it was for.

She had bank problems in early 2017 and it seems that any standing order was dropped.

She does not think the amount was anything like half of what is being asked for now.

I guess there are a lot of fees and charges added along the way.

I reckon she's right to ask Restons for documentation as she does not connect the old account with Beneficial to HFC.

Also that she would dispute the amount, she has no knowledge of the various fees added and what they are for.

Yes, she's a bit of a scatterbrain when it comes to things like this.

I have a feeling she will have had some sort of paperwork at one time but no longer has anything.

I can only act as go-between really. I don't know anything myself, I have to ask her and the answers are not always forthcoming...

Beneficial bank are another trading name of HFC.

it would have been what was called a HFC Loan Account Plus

where by you were given a loan, say typically this was £3k.

it operated like a bank account

she would have had a cheque book and would be allowed to draw against it until be limit is met.

each month a fixed amount would have needed to be by paid back

if that didn't happen, then the 'payment' that was required that month would have been taken directly from any dredit left to the arranged total of the loan.

I cam almost guarantee this wold have had PPI attached, they all did, and the would have been through Hamilton insurance [another HFC company], but reclaim that later!!

lots to read on loan account plus accounts in the HFC forum.

as I said at the start of this thread

they will have a hell of a job getting ANY enforceable paperwork, esp the signed agreement, which is below example

they were all shredded when the PPI scandal broke.

restons will probably be able to produce statements , which they will redact all account numbers from as it wont match a loan number in the HFC range.

PM me the account number from the POC please

agreement loan plus £7100 T+C.pdf

PM sent as requested.

She's at work now so I can't ask her about anything else. Interesting that there may be a PPI claim to make

the number you have sent me is a beneficial bank loan account number 7 digits

hfc LAP's were 8 digits preceded by a 8 digit sort code

ignore the above post then.