Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #41

    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    So its your choice whether to back down and accept their offer...or ignore and see if they do make application or proceed to allocation.

    Their responses smack of desperation to me and no way do they wish this proceed to trial.....if you have written evidence of this agreement and discount....i really cant see how a court court could uphold their claim.

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  2. #42
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    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    Thanks Andy you've made clearer.

    I wonder if they are trying to 'bully' us as they can see no solicitor on our side. I do think they are trying to avoid a full 'hearing' and doing there best to find a way to strike out - but not being a legal expert this worried me.

    We have 3 keys pieces of written proof I would submit to the court to support our defence.

    We have come this far, so intend to carry on.

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  3. #43

    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    See what their next move is

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  4. #44
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    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    We received a lettericon from the claimants solicitor with a 'application noticeicon' with a request for a hearing.

    Their solicitor states that our defence does not come close to satisfying a CPR16 and fails to provide any details of any agreement, and our tactics are to avoid payment.

    They have attached a full witness statement with documents from their client.

    One paragraph states our present defence be struck out, and if we don't file a amended defence within 7 days from the court ordering usto, judgement be made against us.

    They have asked for costs to be awarded to them.

    Also the solicitor has had the case moved to a county courticon near them, and asked for a hearing to decide?

    What do you think?

    Whats the maximum costs which can be awarded to this solicitor if we lose?

    Just to clarify as well ;

    Evidence sent to claimant and original solicitor prior to county court been issued
    - so they had the facts even before we entered a shorter version MCOL online?
    - Then allocated to another solicitor.

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  5. #45

    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    A defence is not suppose to provide any details of any agreement...thats for the claimants particulars and statement.....and too right its to avoid payment..particularly when you have been promised a discount.

    So what does this application actually ask the court...what Order ....Lift the stay....Strike out your defence...Summary Judgment ?

    Any hearing will be in your local county courticon ...not theirs ..you are the Litigant defendant.

    CPR 16.5..just so your familiar with it.

    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...es/part16#16.5

    Would be helpful if you could scan redact and uploadicon the N244icon and Witness Statement......I could do with a little amusement


    Andy

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  6. #46
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    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    I haven't got the paperwork to hand but it deffinetly titled ' application noticeicon' an official court form.

    This was with a 10 page witness statement and documents from there client. One of the point's on the witness statement is to ask the judge to make us complie with cpr16 within 7 days of been told too or enter judgement if we dont obey.

    They had submitted the application at there local court which is 300 miles away from us and asked for a hearing in front of the judge to decide.

    So the form submitted to the court is a application noticeicon NOT a strike out notice.


  7. #47

    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    I dont doubt your word Liam.....but the above is little use until you tell me what order they are asking for and uploadicon their statement...there is no such thing as a Strike out notice...thats one of many orders requested by way of an application noticeicon...N244icon.

    The witness statement is in support of the Order they are requesting...which will be 1 of 3 options ...Lift the stay or strike out the defence/summary judgment or a mix of all 3....the order requested you cant tell me as you dont have it to hand.

    So until you upload I cant advise your next move.

    And finally you dont do anything until the court confirms the application and hearing date...the court sets the time frame and deadlines...not them.


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  8. #48
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    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    i have added the application noticeicon.

    Witness statement points are...(abridged)

    1 - i would explain i took over this matter from xxxx who issued the claim on behalf of the claimant. xxxx do not act on contested matters and once a defence came in, the file was passed to me.

    2 - in my submission, the defence makes no attempt to comply with part 16 of the cpr and does not allow the claimant, or indeed the court, to fully understand the case being put forward by the defendant.

    3 -More particularly the defendant refers to a special price, but makes no attempt to identify what the price was, nor when the agreement was made and made who with. for the record I am instructed and believe the claimant is satisfied that it has charged the correct prices and has made this point on several occasions to the defendant.

    4 - The defendant is able to provide a precise calculation of the overcharging. it must therefore be in a position to explain to the claimant where this figure comes from, and yet has refused to do so.

    5 - upon taking over this case from xxxx i immediately put a call in to the defendant but no one was available to speak to me so sent a letter. (Note we have no record of this)

    6 - The defendant replied on xxxx indicating they took the view that he had fully complied with CPR16 and he was only required to file a short defence. he went onto argue that the claimant is not entitled to make a application to strike out the defence and then suggests that he had previously emailed the claimant for further details, but has failed to provide any further details to me. i cannot attach the letter as part of it is subject to privilege.

    7 -the court will appreciate, but for the benefit of the defendant who is a litigant in person, it is not for the claimant to guess at what the defence is.The defendant is required to clearly set out its case so that the claimant is able to understand.

    8 - Untill the defendant pleads the purported agreement which is relying on and highlights with reference to the said invoices the claimant cannot investigate .

    9 - i attach invoices explaining the ordering process

    10 - The invoice was raised in xxxx 2018 but bears the date xxxx 2017, because the claimants accounting system defaults to the date the invoice was printed out.

    11 - This is one example to demonstrate the point and the claimant has identical paperwork for all orders.

    12 - In the circumstances, i seek a order that the present defence be struck out and that if the defendant does not file a amended defence that complies with CPR within 7 days of the date of this hearing, then the claimant be at liberty to enter judgement.

    13 - To confirm the defendant as litigant in person, the amended defence should include full details of any agreement on which the defendant intends to rely in respect of overcharging, with full particulars of each and every invoice in respect of which the defendant suggests it has been over charged, showing amount charged and the amount the defendant maintains should have been charged.

    14 - I seek the claimants costs of this application. I could have simply issued this application without reference to the defendant, but I made every effort to explain to them clearly why the defence was inadequate in a attempt to avoid further costs, but the defendant refused to accept what I said, or even take there own legal advice, and insisted he he did not have to provide any further details and that my client was not entitled to make this application.

    Attached Files Attached Files

  9. #49

    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    Okay thanks Liam


    So an application to strike out your defence and a witness statement in support of their application pursuant to CPR Part 3.4 with costs, which really states no grounds as to why the court should strike it out....and you to submitting a further particularised defence. Does not attach a draft order to the application and yet requests a hearing.

    Are you sure this is from a Solicitor ?

    As already stated I would not consider your initial defence to be none CPR 16.5 compliant.... it responds to each point of their pleadings.

    It would seem that they do not fully understand the process of making a money claim and that an initial defence is a basic response which challenges the claimant to proceed further..if they feel they have a valid claim and evidence to prove it.

    He is trying to short cut the process without allocation...without full statements or evidence...and requests a further detailed defence before it proceeds to stage 2......otherwise your defence should be struck out.


    So what next...wait for conformation from the court that the application has been accepted and that a hearing date has been set...if so and the court does not reject this nonsense...you will be afforded the opportunity to submit your own witness statement in response to this application...normally the time frame is not less than 7 days pre hearing.

    So come back when the court advises..

    Regards

    Andy

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  10. #50
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    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    Many thanks Andy for your help so far. To be honest, I didn't think it would get so complicated!

    Received the attached N180 in the post today, dated Wednesday - this is what I had expected the next stage to be...

    As the solicitors had submitted there 'application' earlier in the week - will that be separate from the N180 received today do you think?

    Attached Files Attached Files

  11. #51

    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    Its not complicated..its just this Solicitor.

    So they have informed the court they wish to proceed to allocation...and yet they make an application to strike out your defence and/ or ask the court to issue an or else order that you submit a further defence.

    Yes the application should run separate to the process...and you therefore have to file and submit the N180..irrespective of the out come of their application.(the court will advise)

    Strike out applications are encouraged to be made early in proceedings especially when considering the escalating costs that can be incurred in pursuing the claim and following the court’s procedure and consuming the court’s valuable time and resources. The judge could question why a party has been complicit in allowing a claim to progress before making such an application. .

    Regards

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  12. #52
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    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    Today the latest form from the CCBC (Northampton) court is a 'transfer of proceedings' to the solicitors nearest court.

    I assume this is normal?


  13. #53
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    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    updates are;

    I completed and sent back the directions questionnaire we received and asked for the case to be heard at our local county courticon.

    We initially received a 'transfer' of proceedings which the solicitor had asked for as part of his 'strike out' - this was transferred to the solicitors local county court.

    A judge at this court has now transferred to the county court local to the claimant - i assume this is the 'strike out' application as well.

    I called the court just now to confirm they had received the directions questionnaire and asked why it wasn't being transferred to our local county court, and they said as its a Business to Business case, the claimants nearest court takes preference?


  14. #54

    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    Of course you are a business....Im use to dealing with consumers.

    We could do with some help from you

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  15. #55
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    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    Cheers Andy, so the claimants court takes preference?

    It won't change anything with the 'strike out' application and defence i entered online because we are a business - is it all the same basis?


  16. #56

    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    Yes in B2B claims ..the claimants court for hearings...and no change to everything else.

    We could do with some help from you

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  17. #57
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    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyorch View Post
    Yes in B2B claims ..the claimants court for hearings...and no change to everything else.
    Thanks. can't imagine the claimants solicitor being happy now as he had submitted the application for a hearing in his local court - and now its been transferred, on the orders of a district judge.


  18. #58
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    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    Quick question regarding the 'directions questionnaire' - had i completed correctly...

    To be completed by - I entered the company address
    Your contact details - I entered my name as contact as am dealing with
    Signature - my signature and the 'pp' for the company

    as there solicitor has said;

    I note that your own Directions Questionnaire has been signed off by xxxxx who is held out as your “legal representative” . I have not been served with any notice of acting on the part of a legal representative. Please therefore confirm who xxxxxx is, and which solicitors firm he works for. I trust you are aware that only solicitors are entitled to act as legal representatives on behalf of limited companies.

    EDIT; have realised now I have not crossed out “legal representative” - I should have left as 'defendant' only....


  19. #59

    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    liam...hes is running rings around you and playing mind games....ignore..

    Dont worry about not crossing things out...you are a litigant (courts expect and allow for errors) ...a Company yes...but self represented.

    Have you completed everything else on the DQ correctly ?

    We could do with some help from you

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  20. #60
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    Default Re: Small Business claim form received

    i did think that...

    i had filled in all correctly and also cross referenced with his DQ he sent. The only difference between ours was we ticked yes for Mediationicon and he ticked no.

    Lets see what comes first - judges directions re DQ or the solicitors 'strike out' application.


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