Mum has Power of Attorney for her husband who has Parkinsons and lewy body dementia. Whilst she's managing the day to day stuff, she is really struggling to cope with finances, not least because she's caring full time and doesn't get 5 minutes to herself most days.

She's asked me for help with sorting out Dad's bank account as there's lots of payments going out every month that she knows nothing about. Spent a day yesterday going through all the paperwork she has (she saves everything, but Dad went through a phase of throwing everything away without opening it just before he was diagnosed) and I've brought home everything I think is relevant, but dealing with it all is not going to be simple - for lots of things all I have to go on is a name, not even a reference - and though I have a copy of the PoA and signed authority from Mum, I don't think the banks etc are going to want to talk to me.

It would be a lot simpler if Mum could add me to the Power of Attorney, but from what's on the OPG site we don't think this is possible. Does anyone know of a way around this?

Letter of authority.

In the same way I can authorise the bank to allow you to discuss my bank account (but not make withdrawals from it), your Mum, holding the activated power of attorney, can authorise the bank to discuss the account with you (while you are gathering information on her behalf).

That way you don’t need to be appointed as a deputy, as you don’t need to make decisions on how the accounts funds are spent.

I'm trying to get everyone to talk to me on that basis, sent all the letters this morning with copy PoA and copy authority, so fingers crossed.

Most of the payments for which we have no information are standing orders to the likes of Capquest, but with no reference number quoted, so presumably they're either tracing the correct account to credit by means of the name and address or they're just sticking it in a general account and waiting for someone to get in touch about it. Either way, apart from one credit card which has only a very small balance, Dad has definitely not received any correspondence from any of these people for at least 18 months.

There's also an Orange account, presumably for a mobile phone, at £38 a month, only Dad doesn't have a mobile and couldn't use one if he did. He last had a mobile at least 3 years ago. Obviously it's not Orange/EE's fault if the contract has never been cancelled, but you'd have thought they'd query an account that hasn't been used at all for that long. I'm hoping I'll be able to get some of the money back, but I'd settle for cancelling the contract with no notice required.

Changes to a POA can only be made by the donor, the person giving it, while the donor still has mental capacity to do so. As the POS has been registered with the OPG by your mum presumably your dad no longer has mental capacity to manage his affairs and therefore does not have the mental capacity to change his POA either. So no, it cannot be changed. BazzaS's letter of authority suggestion is probably easiest.

Or if you are doing it all by post how good are you at writing your mum's signature? I had POA for my mum but for several years before I activated it my mum, although she still had mental capacity in the legal sense, wasn't coping very well with lots of aspects of managing her bills and asked me to take care of them for her. My version of her signature on letters was never queried!

Changes to a POA can only be made by the donor, the person giving it, while the donor still has mental capacity to do so. As the POS has been registered with the OPG by your mum presumably your dad no longer has mental capacity to manage his affairs and therefore does not have the mental capacity to change his POA either. So no, it cannot be changed. BazzaS's letter of authority suggestion is probably easiest.

 

Or if you are doing it all by post how good are you at writing your mum's signature? I had POA for my mum but for several years before I activated it my mum, although she still had mental capacity in the legal sense, wasn't coping very well with lots of aspects of managing her bills and asked me to take care of them for her. My version of her signature on letters was never queried!

That's fine whilst it works but a conviction for fraud can be difficult to shake off.

Don't do this.

H

If the OP

a) isn’t moving money (or exposing another to loss / risk of loss), and b) there is no dishonest intent : it isn’t fraud by false representation

The OP could take the chance to do so for making enquiries about the accounts but not making any changes, but a letter of authority would definitively sort it at less risk

That's fine whilst it works but a conviction for fraud can be difficult to shake off.

Don't do this.

 

H

You have jumped to conclusions Hammy1962. I wasn't advocating fraud and would never commit it myself. What I suggested was a way of gathering the information and dealing with the administration of accounts and contracts. Fraud involves both dishonest purpose and intent to make personal financial gain (look at the CPS website if you don't believe me). Completely different to what I talked about and from what OP was asking about.

put what you want from the banks in writing and get you mum to sign it. She then gets sent the stuff and you read it.

The letter of authority wont be ignired becuse they dont like it, they generally just dont have a tick box for that on their computer input so it gets ignored. utility co's are much the same but s you can switch online easier to get round.

Orange/EE are asking for a copy of the original LPA application with each page signed and dated as being a true copy, and with a signed statement from Dad (even though they know he lacks capacity) that it is a true copy and represents his wishes. It all seems totally over the top, so I've told Mum to cancel the DD at which point they'll probably write with the information I asked for anyway.

What would normally be accepted as proof of Power of Attorney? I sent a copy of the document confirming the LPA is registered and that Mum is the only attorney.

I sent a copy of the document confirming the LPA is registered and that Mum is the only attorney.

What document is that?

When I registered my PoA last year I had to send the original PoA signed by my mother to the OPG and they returned it with their stamp on each page [saying 'Office of the Public Guardian' - [date] - Registered] and each sheet of paper stamped through, making holes through the page, saying 'VALIDATED - OPG'. I didn't get any other document from them, other than a covering letter saying something like 'the registered POA is enclosed'. That was for an old style EPA, I don't know if they do the newer LPAs differently.

Everyone I sent the POA to required it to be a copy certified by a solicitor, and that meant each separate page of it had to be certified. That's normal practice. Make sure that when solicitor copies the page they put something dark behind it so that the VALIDATED - OPG piercing shows up. You might be able to save money by taking the original to an EE shop and getting them to take the copy and send it on internally. I've not tried that with mobile companies. Banks do it all the time but I suspect you might get a blank look at some mobile company stores.

EE's second request, for signed confirmation from the POA donor, is daft and not something I was ever asked for. As you correctly say, the whole reason OPG will register the PoA is because they are satisfied the donor no longer has mental capacity. So not only may they be physically unable to issue such a letter, even if they did it would be meaningless.

Barclaycard have accepted a copy of the search from the OPG site (or they may have repeated it themselves, it's free, can be done by email and took 2 days). There are two accounts apparently - we only knew about 1 - and all they've provided is balances even though we asked for statements etc.

Orange/EE have not responded further or written to the account holder even though we cancelled the DD two months ago now, they're just reporting late payments to the credit reference agencies. Presumably they will write eventually.

Capquest have been unable to trace any account in that name at either the previous or the current address. We've cancelled the SO, but Capquest also say they can't trace receiving any payments so they can't give any money back. I may need help with this one, so I'll start a new thread and leave a link here. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?489140-Capquest-can-t-trace-account-won-t-repay-payments&p=5139454&viewfull=1#post5139454

For information, anyone can search the Office of the Public Guardian register https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/search-public-guardian-registers and get a certificate confirming all the information anyone might need. As I said above, it's free and took 2 days to receive via email. If the organisation involved won't accept a copy of the certificate, they can search themselves - a lot less hassle than getting the application copied and certified.

At least one organisation caved in and accepted my copy of the certificate as proof of Power of Attorney when I threatend to go to the ICO to get a ruling as to whether insisting on a copy of the application was a breach of data protection since it includes a lot of information which they have no need to see.