Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31
  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    gleno Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Apr 2017
    Posts : 38 (0.09 post per day)

    Default Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    Hey Guys,



    See if you guys can assist me. I have been working Flexible Working since 2015 as I look after a disabled wife and a child. Recently during a meeting with my manager, my manager informed me that he wants to cancel my flexible working and wants to increase my working days from 3 (under flexible working) to 5 days a week. I was given 2 weeks notice and given a date when this change will be applicatble. I objected to this decision, but the manager simply announced his decision and ended the meeting and said no further discussions.


    I received his decision in writing with inaccuracies in statement to which I objected, as his decision contained various factual discrepancies and asked him to give me evidence to substantiate his reasons. I have however, not yet received them. I further wrote to them formally rejecting the proposed changes to the terms of my contract and informed them I would be sticking to the currect terms of my contract and would be working 3 days a week only.


    I then received phone callicon asking how I was from another manager as I had gone AWOL. I asked this manager to check my 2 letters that I sent in and have not received a reply to yet as these letters clearly address that I do not agree to new terms and I would be work 3 days only. I then had further discussion with another manager and I told him exactly the same that I am expecting a reply to my previous 2 letters.


    I then received a lettericon from another manager informing me that I have gone AWOL and if I do not turn up under new terms i.e. 5 days a week I will be marked down AWOL.

    Today I have received another letter calling me in an investigation for Disciplinary hearing regarding my AWOL. All of this is despite:


    1) Management, unilaterally changing my terms of contract.
    2) Management, not replying to my objections I raised in response to their decision.
    3) Me formally rejecting their proposed changes.
    4) Me informing them that I will be doing my shifts under flexible working and that I have not had response to my 2 letters.


    Can someone kindly guide me,


    1) am I wrong here?
    2) Can I be sacked in this AWOL hearing? knowing that I have already told them why am I not turning up to shifts?
    3) Can flexible working be unilaterally changed?
    4) Should there not be a status quo applied till my objections raised are answered?


    Thanks


  2. #2
    Gold Account Holder Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Jun 2012
    Posts : 5,707 (2.59 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    I think the flexible working is important but also a red herring as they are changing your terms of employment. See here. Use this first.



    http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3971

    Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    gleno Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Apr 2017
    Posts : 38 (0.09 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmzzi View Post
    I think the flexible working is important but also a red herring as they are changing your terms of employment. See here. Use this first.



    http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3971

    Thanks Emmzzi,
    According to ACAS link

    An existing contract of employment can be varied only with the agreement of both parties. Changes can be agreed by with either on an individual basis or through a collective agreement. When any change to a contract of employment occurs the employer should give written notification of the changes in writing, within one month of the change taking effect.


    As I said in our meeting we were not even given a chance to say our side and were given 2 weeks time for this change to implement.


    Bigger issue is that now company is taking me down the route of disciplinary for AWOL


  4. #4
    Gold Account Holder Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Jun 2012
    Posts : 5,707 (2.59 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    Is there a union at your place of work? You could really use some in person help!

    Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  5. #5
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    gleno Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Apr 2017
    Posts : 38 (0.09 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmzzi View Post
    Is there a union at your place of work? You could really use some in person help!

    Union is looking into this matter and according to them the employer is at wrong and they can assist for unfair dismissal once I get sacked, NOT before


  6. #6
    Site Team Mr.P Authoritative Mr.P Authoritative Mr.P Authoritative Mr.P Authoritative Mr.P Authoritative Mr.P Authoritative Mr.P Authoritative Mr.P Authoritative Mr.P Authoritative Mr.P Authoritative Mr.P Authoritative Mr.P's Avatar



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Mar 2013
    Posts : 3,880 (2.02 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    In my opinion, the union should be helping in order to prevent the unfair dismissal. But things don't always work like this.

    You say you have to provide care for a disabled partner and child. Can't help wondering if the employer would fall foul of the disabled & discrimination laws. Perhaps Emmnzzi could comment.

    PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING
    EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS


    No... you can't eat my brain just yet. I need it a little while longer.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  7. #7
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    gleno Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Apr 2017
    Posts : 38 (0.09 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    In my opinion, the union should be helping in order to prevent the unfair dismissal. But things don't always work like this.

    You say you have to provide care for a disabled partner and child. Can't help wondering if the employer would fall foul of the disabled & discrimination laws. Perhaps Emmnzzi could comment.
    I have raised formal concern, both during the meeting and in a formal letter of concern that I have carer responsiblity and childcare responsibilty and warned the employer about the the impact of these changes to welfare of myself and my family. I have formally informed them that I need to carry on flexible working due to this very reason


  8. #8
    Gold Account Holder Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Jun 2012
    Posts : 5,707 (2.59 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    Hi, would need a lot more info to decide if there's a discrimination case there, but it's def. potential, Mr. P. It's much better if it doesn't need to get that far.



    Union reps in other places I have worked would be taking the manager aside for a quiet word and saying, "Look, I know we got busy and you need more hours, but you may not be aware of this leglisaltion, can I have a word before it escalates, I'm sure there's an answer..."


    I would ask the regional/head office if that is a thing which they could help with.

    Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  9. #9
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    gleno Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Apr 2017
    Posts : 38 (0.09 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmzzi View Post
    Hi, would need a lot more info to decide if there's a discrimination case there, but it's def. potential, Mr. P. It's much better if it doesn't need to get that far.



    Union reps in other places I have worked would be taking the manager aside for a quiet word and saying, "Look, I know we got busy and you need more hours, but you may not be aware of this leglisaltion, can I have a word before it escalates, I'm sure there's an answer..."


    I would ask the regional/head office if that is a thing which they could help with.

    This is the advice from Regional/Head Office


  10. #10
    Gold Account Holder Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative Emmzzi Authoritative



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Jun 2012
    Posts : 5,707 (2.59 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    It's bad advice, so push harder.

    Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  11. #11
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Nov 2016
    Posts : 630 (1.10 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmzzi View Post
    It's bad advice, so push harder.
    I agree. As Emmzzi often points out, you have no way of verifying who anyone on the internet is, but if you wish to believe it, I'm a union official and if this really was said to a member I'd have some choice phrases to use, some not very polite. Assuming, of course, that this is the whole story, because for one reason or another, sometimes perspectives don't match.

    Having said that the ACAS quote is a little light too. It actually is entirely possible to effect a contractual change without agreement of the employee. It happens a lot. So don't think it can't be done. It can. It is. Done correctly, it's legal.

    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  12. #12
    Classic Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a contribution
    king12345 Informative king12345 Informative king12345 Informative king12345 Informative



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : May 2007
    Posts : 2,908 (0.72 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    I won't go into discussions on what you should could do otherwise I'll get attacked, but gleno, you are the kind of employee that make the workforce proud.
    Stick to your guns and they'll most likely back down.
    If they won't, et will compensate you.
    Keep them on their toes by sending all communication recorded delivery.
    They hate these evidence in disciplinary, exposed them as the fools they are.


  13. #13
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    gleno Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Apr 2017
    Posts : 38 (0.09 post per day)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sangie595 View Post
    I agree. As Emmzzi often points out, you have no way of verifying who anyone on the internet is, but if you wish to believe it, I'm a union official and if this really was said to a member I'd have some choice phrases to use, some not very polite. Assuming, of course, that this is the whole story, because for one reason or another, sometimes perspectives don't match.

    Having said that the ACAS quote is a little light too. It actually is entirely possible to effect a contractual change without agreement of the employee. It happens a lot. So don't think it can't be done. It can. It is. Done correctly, it's legal.
    Hi Sangie
    I checked again and My union representative have asked me to seek legal advice. Once again I sought assistance from unionís legal department and they advised to send me paperwork so they can begin initial vetting for potential claim of unfair dismissal.
    For their advice I should tell my employer that I will be working under protest. But biggest question is how? Given my circumstances
    Also even if we play devils advocate and say employer can anull my flexible working then when I raised objections to them


  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Nov 2016
    Posts : 630 (1.10 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    I understand your concerns, but you need to ask the legal team how you work under protest. We have very little information to go on, and the law gives employers the upper hand in many things, so one false step can undermine a claim. I'd love to be as certain of life as others on this thread, and simply fighting means an ET win and compensation for you. But life isn't like that. By all means use boards like this to check up or clarify things you are being told, but get your union to tell you what and how to do things. They have a more complete picture, and it's them who will decide whether or not there's a legal claim.


  15. #15
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    gleno Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Apr 2017
    Posts : 38 (0.09 post per day)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sangie595 View Post
    I understand your concerns, but you need to ask the legal team how you work under protest. We have very little information to go on, and the law gives employers the upper hand in many things, so one false step can undermine a claim. I'd love to be as certain of life as others on this thread, and simply fighting means an ET win and compensation for you. But life isn't like that. By all means use boards like this to check up or clarify things you are being told, but get your union to tell you what and how to do things. They have a more complete picture, and it's them who will decide whether or not there's a legal claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangie595 View Post
    I agree. As Emmzzi often points out, you have no way of verifying who anyone on the internet is, but if you wish to believe it, I'm a union official and if this really was said to a member I'd have some choice phrases to use, some not very polite. Assuming, of course, that this is the whole story, because for one reason or another, sometimes perspectives don't match.

    Having said that the ACAS quote is a little light too. It actually is entirely possible to effect a contractual change without agreement of the employee. It happens a lot. So don't think it can't be done. It can. It is. Done correctly, it's legal.
    Hi Sangie
    I checked again and My union representative have asked me to seek legal advice. Once again I sought assistance from unionís legal department and they advised to send me paperwork so they can begin initial vetting for potential claim of unfair dismissal.
    For their advice I should tell my employer that I will be working under protest. But biggest question is how? Given my circumstances
    Also even if we play devils advocate and say employer can anull my flexible working then when I raised objections against their decision should status quo not apply?
    My issue is that I have received no response from management and they are pursuing investigation path for me not attending work under new terms based on their decision and ignoring to Answer to my objections. I have even turned up to work on shifts under my flexible working only to be sent home and I have also informed management that I wonít be in on days they are expecting me to as I have written my objections to their decision twice but not heard anything back.
    Where do I stand in an AWOL investigation given these circumstances?


  16. #16
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Nov 2016
    Posts : 630 (1.10 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    You crossed posts with me - I replied to this above.


  17. #17
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    gleno Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Apr 2017
    Posts : 38 (0.09 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    I edited the later half of the message which was posted as another reply. Sorry for the inconvenience.
    Most importantly do you not think by me raising objections a status quo would apply to employers decision?
    And given I have told employers that I am awaiting response and doing shifts under my old terms and also informed them that I wonít be in days they are proposing where do I stand with AWOL Hearing


  18. #18
    Royalties Account Holder unclebulgaria67 Highly authoritative unclebulgaria67 Highly authoritative unclebulgaria67 Highly authoritative unclebulgaria67 Highly authoritative unclebulgaria67 Highly authoritative unclebulgaria67 Highly authoritative unclebulgaria67 Highly authoritative unclebulgaria67 Highly authoritative unclebulgaria67 Highly authoritative unclebulgaria67 Highly authoritative unclebulgaria67 Highly authoritative unclebulgaria67's Avatar



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Feb 2010
    Posts : 15,471 (5.09 post per day)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gleno View Post
    I edited the later half of the message which was posted as another reply. Sorry for the inconvenience.
    Most importantly do you not think by me raising objections a status quo would apply to employers decision?
    And given I have told employers that I am awaiting response and doing shifts under my old terms and also informed them that I wonít be in days they are proposing where do I stand with AWOL Hearing
    I am not going to comments on the legal contract issue you have with your employers, other than to suggest that you think about contacting a Solicitors that deals with employment rights. Giving your caring responsibilities outside of work, there might be organisations ( e.g. charities) that help parents in these situations. I.e. They might have access to very good Solicitors that can take on cases. Perhaps there is a way to resolve this, if the employer is willing to do so, without it getting to the stage where they dismiss you, leading to an employment tribunal.

    If you did end up getting dismissed from your employment, how easy would it be to find suitable alternative employment where you live ? In some areas of the country, there are not a lot of employment choices and even if there are many jobs available, how many would be flexible.

    Have you looked into what help you can receive outside of work, so you are able to work the hours your employer now requires ? Have you had a benefit review with an advisor from say Citizens Advice ? It might be worth doing so. Billions of pounds of benefits people could claim go unclaimed every year, because people either don't know they were eligible or don't consider they need Government benefits,


  19. #19
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Nov 2016
    Posts : 630 (1.10 post per day)

    Default Re: Employer Cancelled Flexible Working Contract & Now Disciplinary

    Do not consult another solicitor! You have a union. Go elsewhere now and they will wash their hands of you. You cannot have two legal advisors. Only go elsewhere if you have decided yippy don't want union support or they won't give it to you.

    And honestly, I can't tell you what to do. This is the unions job. So whether I think the status quo should apply is irrelevant. And what I advise you to do could be contrary to your best interests. In don't know the circumstances. You might be right. The employer might be. I don't have the information to say, and most importantly, you have a union who won't represent you if you go your own way and follow other peoples advice. So you really must talk to them. I'm not being difficult - I'm giving you the best advice you can get right now.


  20. #20
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    gleno Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Apr 2017
    Posts : 38 (0.09 post per day)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unclebulgaria67 View Post
    I am not going to comments on the legal contract issue you have with your employers, other than to suggest that you think about contacting a Solicitors that deals with employment rights. Giving your caring responsibilities outside of work, there might be organisations ( e.g. charities) that help parents in these situations. I.e. They might have access to very good Solicitors that can take on cases. Perhaps there is a way to resolve this, if the employer is willing to do so, without it getting to the stage where they dismiss you, leading to an employment tribunal.

    If you did end up getting dismissed from your employment, how easy would it be to find suitable alternative employment where you live ? In some areas of the country, there are not a lot of employment choices and even if there are many jobs available, how many would be flexible.

    Have you looked into what help you can receive outside of work, so you are able to work the hours your employer now requires ? Have you had a benefit review with an advisor from say Citizens Advice ? It might be worth doing so. Billions of pounds of benefits people could claim go unclaimed every year, because people either don't know they were eligible or don't consider they need Government benefits,
    I really appreciate this advice and I am looking into available help recently. The issue is that the cost of such service such as childcare and carers outweighs middle class income. I am therefore looking into Citizen Advice and social services.
    I have seen a solicitor yesterday with all paperwork and they have advised that I have a very strong case of resigning and claiming constructive dismissal or if I get sacked then for unfair dismissal. The issue around AWOL and previous issues shows that employers are retaliating as I am questioning them by writing to them. However, the solicitor needed barrister advice to ascertain chances of winning and that would be at a heavy cost.
    I am so stressed with all this that I am struggling to cope with day to day life tasks.



Reclaim the Right Ltd. - reg.05783665 in the UK reg. office:- 923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE
We use cookies to personalise content and ads and to provide social media features. We also share information about your use of our site with our advertising and analytics partners. See details