Hi Ethel,

Maybe I can clarify the situation a bit more...

..the unregulated rogue property manager( I did not know this at the time) went out to the market to find a buildings insurance for flats.

He obtained the insurance policy and asked me to pay the broker directly.

So I did...

as time went on and especially when the managing agent refused to let me have sight of the original policy documents..

.I started to look in to things further.and I was told by the FSA that there is a duty to disclose any commissions when asked to do so....

.after some time the broker stated that yes two commissions were applied.

One to the broker and one to the managing agent.

I was not aware of this, it was not disclosed to me when entering in to the contract.

I then started to investigate the property manager and his qualifications did not exist,

he was not registered with any redress scheme,

I was told by FOS that to sell insurance or set up a policy and handle the administration of a claim you would need to be FCA registered.

He is not

I made a complaint about him to the FCA and RICS and Trading Standards.

He is a Director of over 30 different companies at Companies House.

He has misrepresented himself and taken the commission without anyone agreeing to this..

..on challenging him he even admitted the monies had gone elsewhere.

...another bank account and yes there is no paperwork because the way these [problem]s can go

I have learnt is that they directly invoice you as the broker did and then they pay the managing agent another way so you are not aware that this has happened.

I now don't think the managing agent has a right to any monies

- commission or his managing agent fee due to breach of trust and fraud.

He also charged items to the policy which I am not obligated to pay for...again found this out after the fact.

Also he is according to the broker.

..well known to them so he would not have gone to the open market to have got the best deal for me

...he would have gone to the market to get the highest commission for himself....

.the policy was not obtained at arms length and the commission I can see has influenced his decision making.

The broker was wrong to secure business in this way.

..that is what a bribe is..

..and it was not disclosed when entering in to the contract.

So the contract has been based on unfair terms, the contract is based on fraud and not enforceable...

A quick search reveals this is unfortunately quite a common problem with managing agents taking insurance that gives them a kickback rather than the insurance which is cheapest for the leaseholders.

In terms of practical next steps, it is extremely unlikely you will get anywhere complaining to the FOS or the FCA or the police.

Presumably the insurance cost is incorporated into the service charge for the property, so I suspect your best option may be to bring a claim before the Leasehold Valuation Tribunal (see https://www.lease-advice.org/article/transparency-key-reasonableness-insurance-premiums/).

He has misrepresented himself and taken the commission without anyone agreeing to this..

..on challenging him he even admitted the monies had gone elsewhere.

...another bank account and yes there is no paperwork because the way these [problem]s can go

 

I have learnt is that they directly invoice you as the broker did and then they pay the managing agent another way so you are not aware that this has happened.

 

I now don't think the managing agent has a right to any monies

- commission or his managing agent fee due to breach of trust and fraud.

I do not think this is fraud. Fraud generally requires a false statement dishonestly made. It would require the director to have told you something that was untrue - failing to tell you something is not fraud.

It is not breach of trust. A property manager is not a trustee.

Having done a bit of online research, I am afraid it suggests that the FCA does not consider leaseholders to be 'customers', and therefore there is no requirement for secret commissions to be disclosed under financial regulation, so financial regulation may be of limited assistance to you.

He also charged items to the policy which I am not obligated to pay for...again found this out after the fact.

This I do not understand I'm afraid.

Thanks for your help and the link is very useful....I am now contemplating making an application to the FTT bsed on unreasonable charges.

Fraud means the secret commission monies were not disclosed to the principal

- Me.....this always needs to be disclosed to any party.

..the contract was based on a bribe.

...this is fraud...

..the contracts were based on a bribe and dishonesty which means the contracts are based on unfair terms..

.Also the property manager was also the company secretary..

.he was in a position of trust and had a duty of care as well as the duty to avoid conflict of interests.

He took advantage of his position.

Good luck with your claim at FTT.

I've no experience of those so nothing helpful to add.

I will say though that you've presented an awful lot of things here as facts that are actually only your opinion so don't be surprised if a FTT judge does not agree with you.

As I've not seen either your lease or the insurance policy I don't know if you are legally the Principal in relation to the arrangement of the insurance policy, but in the years I dealt with policies like this in the insurance industry the leaseholder of one of flats wouldn't have been the Principal.

Bribe and fraud are not legally the same thing nor is it as obvious as you seem to think that anyone was paid a bribe.

Payment of undisclosed commissions would not necessarily undermine the validity of the policy.

More likely it gives you a right to recover the commissions (if you have legal standing in it at all).

And commission arrangements are not part of the policy terms between insured and insurer so unfair contract terms legislation is unlikely to be relevant.

I have just received an update from FOS on the above situation...they stated the matter needs to be addressed by a court of law.

I have received a response from Financial Ombudsman service who state this need to be determined by a court of law

You could explore the possibility of applying to the LVT/FTT to challenge the reasonableness of the service charge.

However you should take care in doing this as the landlord can sometimes recover their legal costs etc. through the terms of your lease, so it can be more risky than small claims proceedings.

Hi All,

Thank you for all your help to date....

I have bought the flat from hell and I am now desperate to get out.

There are only three flats and it has been a nightmare from week one where one of the directors is highly controlling and untrustworthy...very good at being charming to your face however good at being manipulative behind your back...

There have been a number of not good management decisions made such as

1. Unregulated property manager appointed who took a BIG secret commission for the insurance policy.....I found out about this some months later and shared this with the directors and they did nothing about the situation such as sacking agent which they should have done. In fact they are going out of their way to defend him which is irregular.

2.Insurance broker bribed the property manager for the business and this inflated the policy. Again they think this is ok?

3. Now received a false defamatory letter from director making false claims that I have

been abusive...which has really spooked me as I hardly know these people and I have never been rude to them.

4. Directors have been carless and made uninformed decisions and are hiding under corporate veil.

5. On the unregulated property management web site other people have commented on this company director stating similar issues to mine so I have tried to contact some of them to get some support.

I want to sue the rogue property manager personally for fraud however I am not sure if I can as I took the complaint to FOS and the directors blocked it on the basis that all parties need to agree and as you can guess they did not.

My gut instinct is I am being financially abused and they are all in it to together and no I am not being paranoid as I have some proof.

I think I could bring an unfair prejudice claim against the company however how can I sue the deceitful property manager in the court?

All help much appreciated as I am trying to prepare a pre-action letter however I am not sure if I can sue if all the parties do not agree to taking action?

Hope that makes sense?

is this linked too...

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?487634-Can-I-hold-a-Director-personally-liable-for-fraud

Yes ..threads merged for the third time.