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    • Thank you for that "read me", It's a lot to digest, lots of legal procedure. There was one thing that I was going to mention to you,  but in one of the conversations in that thread it was mentioned that there may be spies on the Forum,  this is something that I've read quite some time ago in a previous thread. What I had in mind was to wait for the thirty days after their reply to my CCA request and then send the unenforceable letter. I was hoping that an absence of signature could be the Silver Bullet but it seems that there are lot of layers to peel on this Onion.  
    • love the extra £1000 charge for confidentialy there BF   Also OP even if they don't offer OOC it doesn't mean your claim isn't good. I had 3 against EVRi that were heard over the last 3 weeks. They sent me emails asking me to discontinue as I wouldn't win. Went infront of a judge and won all 3.    Just remember the law is on your side. The judges will be aware of this.   Where you can its important to try to point out at the hearing the specific part of the contract they breached. I found this was very helpful and the Judge made reference to it when they gave their judgements and it seemed this was pretty important as once you have identified a specific breach the matter turns straight to liability. From there its a case of pointing out the unlawfullness of their insurance and then that should be it.
    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
    • just type no need to keep hitting quote... as has already been said, they use their own criteria. if a person is not stated as linked to you on your file then no cant hurt you. not all creditors use every CRA provider, there are only 3 main credit file providers mind, the rest are just 3rd party data sharers. if you already have revolving credit on your file there is no need to apply for anything just 'because' you need to show you can handle money. if you have bank account(s) and a mortgage which you are servicing (paying) then nothing more can improve your score, despite what these 'scam' sites claiml  its all a CON!!  
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Can I hold a Director personally liable for fraud?


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Hi Ethel,

 

Maybe I can clarify the situation a bit more...

 

..the unregulated rogue property manager( I did not know this at the time) went out to the market to find a buildings insurance for flats.

He obtained the insurance policy and asked me to pay the broker directly.

 

So I did...

as time went on and especially when the managing agent refused to let me have sight of the original policy documents..

.I started to look in to things further.and I was told by the FSA that there is a duty to disclose any commissions when asked to do so....

 

.after some time the broker stated that yes two commissions were applied.

One to the broker and one to the managing agent.

I was not aware of this, it was not disclosed to me when entering in to the contract.

 

I then started to investigate the property manager and his qualifications did not exist,

he was not registered with any redress scheme,

 

I was told by FOS that to sell insurance or set up a policy and handle the administration of a claim you would need to be FCA registered.

He is not

 

I made a complaint about him to the FCA and RICS and Trading Standards.

He is a Director of over 30 different companies at Companies House.

 

He has misrepresented himself and taken the commission without anyone agreeing to this..

..on challenging him he even admitted the monies had gone elsewhere.

...another bank account and yes there is no paperwork because the way these [problem]s can go

 

I have learnt is that they directly invoice you as the broker did and then they pay the managing agent another way so you are not aware that this has happened.

 

I now don't think the managing agent has a right to any monies

- commission or his managing agent fee due to breach of trust and fraud.

 

He also charged items to the policy which I am not obligated to pay for...again found this out after the fact.

 

Also he is according to the broker.

..well known to them so he would not have gone to the open market to have got the best deal for me

...he would have gone to the market to get the highest commission for himself....

.the policy was not obtained at arms length and the commission I can see has influenced his decision making.

 

The broker was wrong to secure business in this way.

..that is what a bribe is..

..and it was not disclosed when entering in to the contract.

 

So the contract has been based on unfair terms, the contract is based on fraud and not enforceable...

Edited by dx100uk
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A quick search reveals this is unfortunately quite a common problem with managing agents taking insurance that gives them a kickback rather than the insurance which is cheapest for the leaseholders.

 

In terms of practical next steps, it is extremely unlikely you will get anywhere complaining to the FOS or the FCA or the police.

 

Presumably the insurance cost is incorporated into the service charge for the property, so I suspect your best option may be to bring a claim before the Leasehold Valuation Tribunal (see https://www.lease-advice.org/article/transparency-key-reasonableness-insurance-premiums/).

 

He has misrepresented himself and taken the commission without anyone agreeing to this..

..on challenging him he even admitted the monies had gone elsewhere.

...another bank account and yes there is no paperwork because the way these [problem]s can go

 

I have learnt is that they directly invoice you as the broker did and then they pay the managing agent another way so you are not aware that this has happened.

 

I now don't think the managing agent has a right to any monies

- commission or his managing agent fee due to breach of trust and fraud.

 

I do not think this is fraud. Fraud generally requires a false statement dishonestly made. It would require the director to have told you something that was untrue - failing to tell you something is not fraud.

 

It is not breach of trust. A property manager is not a trustee.

 

Having done a bit of online research, I am afraid it suggests that the FCA does not consider leaseholders to be 'customers', and therefore there is no requirement for secret commissions to be disclosed under financial regulation, so financial regulation may be of limited assistance to you.

 

He also charged items to the policy which I am not obligated to pay for...again found this out after the fact.

This I do not understand I'm afraid.

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Thanks for your help and the link is very useful....I am now contemplating making an application to the FTT bsed on unreasonable charges.

 

Fraud means the secret commission monies were not disclosed to the principal

- Me.....this always needs to be disclosed to any party.

..the contract was based on a bribe.

...this is fraud...

 

..the contracts were based on a bribe and dishonesty which means the contracts are based on unfair terms..

 

.Also the property manager was also the company secretary..

.he was in a position of trust and had a duty of care as well as the duty to avoid conflict of interests.

He took advantage of his position.

Edited by dx100uk
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Good luck with your claim at FTT.

I've no experience of those so nothing helpful to add.

 

I will say though that you've presented an awful lot of things here as facts that are actually only your opinion so don't be surprised if a FTT judge does not agree with you.

 

As I've not seen either your lease or the insurance policy I don't know if you are legally the Principal in relation to the arrangement of the insurance policy, but in the years I dealt with policies like this in the insurance industry the leaseholder of one of flats wouldn't have been the Principal.

 

Bribe and fraud are not legally the same thing nor is it as obvious as you seem to think that anyone was paid a bribe.

Payment of undisclosed commissions would not necessarily undermine the validity of the policy.

 

More likely it gives you a right to recover the commissions (if you have legal standing in it at all).

And commission arrangements are not part of the policy terms between insured and insurer so unfair contract terms legislation is unlikely to be relevant.

Edited by dx100uk
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You could explore the possibility of applying to the LVT/FTT to challenge the reasonableness of the service charge.

 

However you should take care in doing this as the landlord can sometimes recover their legal costs etc. through the terms of your lease, so it can be more risky than small claims proceedings.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi All,

Thank you for all your help to date....

I have bought the flat from hell and I am now desperate to get out.

There are only three flats and it has been a nightmare from week one where one of the directors is highly controlling and untrustworthy...very good at being charming to your face however good at being manipulative behind your back...

 

There have been a number of not good management decisions made such as

1. Unregulated property manager appointed who took a BIG secret commission for the insurance policy.....I found out about this some months later and shared this with the directors and they did nothing about the situation such as sacking agent which they should have done. In fact they are going out of their way to defend him which is irregular.

 

2.Insurance broker bribed the property manager for the business and this inflated the policy. Again they think this is ok?

 

 

3. Now received a false defamatory letter from director making false claims that I have

been abusive...which has really spooked me as I hardly know these people and I have never been rude to them.

 

4. Directors have been carless and made uninformed decisions and are hiding under corporate veil.

 

5. On the unregulated property management web site other people have commented on this company director stating similar issues to mine so I have tried to contact some of them to get some support.

 

I want to sue the rogue property manager personally for fraud however I am not sure if I can as I took the complaint to FOS and the directors blocked it on the basis that all parties need to agree and as you can guess they did not.

 

My gut instinct is I am being financially abused and they are all in it to together and no I am not being paranoid as I have some proof.

 

 

I think I could bring an unfair prejudice claim against the company however how can I sue the deceitful property manager in the court?

 

 

All help much appreciated as I am trying to prepare a pre-action letter however I am not sure if I can sue if all the parties do not agree to taking action?

 

Hope that makes sense?

 

 

 

:x

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes ..threads merged for the third time.

We could do with some help from you.

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