Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    So claim one was for cancer?

    And claim two is for anxiety and depression?

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  2. #42
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    No -

    Claim 1) was for stress related illness - then returned to work for a month and a half and relapsed (although I was scoring high for anxiety and depression but this information wasn't shared with me.)

    Claim 2) is a continuation of the original symptoms - and I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression a couple of months after I relapsed


  3. #43
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    And the consultant is a cancer specialist because...?

    A psychologist would seem more appropriate.

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  4. #44
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    He has experience of my condition and feels it is related to my previous illness and has medical evidence from previous studies which shows this.


  5. #45
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    I have been referred to a psychologist and waiting for for some counselling sessions I almost also currently on medication. I don't mind seeing a private psychiatrist if it helps. All I really want out of this is to get better and return to work what I don't want is to return to work and have another relapse and go through what I went through previously.


  6. #46
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    Ok. I can't advise without a full picture, and your drip feeding information suggests you value privacy more than you want help.

    I wish you the very best and hope the people you have PMd can offer better advice. I dont offer advice by PM for the reasons Sangie stated in an earlier post.

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  7. #47
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    No problem thank you Emmzi I appreciate it. I'm sorry I can't provide a fuller picture but there isn't much more to what I have already mentioned. I'm hoping that once Sangie gets my PM he can maybe fill in the gaps.


  8. #48
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    Hi Emmzzi,

    Can I just ask, you mentioned that their is a very slim chance of getting a payout. Is this even if I take the matter to the fosicon?


  9. #49
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    I haven't had a PM from anyone. But anyway, I'm not convinced I can really say much more. A cancer consultant is not a specialist in mental health, and whilst I suspect everyone could go with a general statement that people with cancer would have times of depression or anxiety, I don't think that means the same thing as all depression and anxiety is caused by cancer. It is clinically possible to have two disconnected causes, for two instances of the same general condition. That makes this a dispute on clinical expertise, not employment.

    However, I may be misreading this, but it appears that you have said some things to the rehab specialist about your employer; and those things you have said appear to cast some negative opinion about how well they have acted towards you. Is that correct? Because if that is the case, then whilst three insurers should not have disclosed the detail about what you said, they are certainly within their rights, whether or not they are correct in their assessment, to tell your employer that they believe the cause of the current complaint is to do with you position at work, not "real sickness". That seems to be the argument you are suggesting they are making.

    Now that is an employment issue, and it's the reason why the employer isn't going to support any litigation for you. It'd be a rare instance an employer would anyway - precedent on that would be horrendous. But the thing is that you may have made allegations about their lack of support or adjustments which result in a potential liability to them. Basically, if you are saying these things, it's entirely possible you might take legal action against them for those things. They aren't going to take legal action on your behalf when that potentially is a conflict of interest for them as they might have to defend themselves against the very allegations that the insurer alleges you have made. And no court in the land will force them to.

    I'll be honest. Unless you can come up with a good strategy here, I don't see that you will be able to just return to work. It appears that the relationship with the employer is, at best, not great. And nor is your health. Why do you think any of that is going to change? In which case, and I'd possibly be expecting this as the next step, it is possible that the employer and the insurer might make an offer of a lump sum settlement for your resignation. I've seen that happen often. But it won't be a fortune if they do.

    Alternatively, I think your only option is the Ombudsmanicon. And you may not win. Or yippy may get nothing more than that settlement at the end of it anyway.

    You may need to carefully consider whether the eyes of all this is also going to adversely impact on you.

    If you think that a settlement might be better, you may want to think about what kind of sum you are looking for.

    But that's all based on a very incomplete understanding of the whole situation.


  10. #50
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    Quote Originally Posted by choudaryk View Post
    Hi Emmzzi,

    Can I just ask, you mentioned that their is a very slim chance of getting a payout. Is this even if I take the matter to the fosicon?



    you'll be an eternity getting a response. not worth it.

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  11. #51
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    Hi Emmzzi,

    Can I ask you (not doubting your experience and if you don't mind) what do you base that on and what background do you have? Its just that I have seen cases similar to mine upheld by the Ombudsmanicon.

    Many Thanks


  12. #52
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    Hi Sangie,

    Just read your response - all of what you have said is correct, how can we look at the settlement side of things? I'm still keen to take it to the Ombudsmanicon if it means that my claim is reinstated and I have seen similar cases to mine upheld by them. My health is bad at the moment but the more time I have to get the medical help I need before I return to work the less chance there is of a relapse and this time I want to ensure that I am supported on my return to work and have certain adjustments confirmed as I have been diagnosed with depression and anxiety which from my understanding is protected by law as a disability.


  13. #53
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    Quote Originally Posted by choudaryk View Post
    Hi Emmzzi,

    Can I ask you (not doubting your experience and if you don't mind) what do you base that on and what background do you have? Its just that I have seen cases similar to mine upheld by the Ombudsmanicon.

    Many Thanks



    Then by all means go for it. I have no idea what your actual case is, in order to have an opinion.



    And you should ever trust that anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Let's assume I'm a professional clog dancer.

    Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!
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  14. #54
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    lol, then you'll understand why I am being careful.

    Thank you though.


  15. #55
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    Quote Originally Posted by choudaryk View Post
    Hi Sangie,

    Just read your response - all of what you have said is correct, how can we look at the settlement side of things? I'm still keen to take it to the Ombudsmanicon if it means that my claim is reinstated and I have seen similar cases to mine upheld by them. My health is bad at the moment but the more time I have to get the medical help I need before I return to work the less chance there is of a relapse and this time I want to ensure that I am supported on my return to work and have certain adjustments confirmed as I have been diagnosed with depression and anxiety which from my understanding is protected by law as a disability.
    I am running out of things I can say to you.

    You don't, as far as I know, ask for a settlement. You make yourself annoying enough to get offered one! Or that's my experience. I usually do that by asking lots of awkward questions and threatening, or going, to the FO. But my threats usually carry a lot more weight than yours might. That said, I've occasionally helped non union friends (i have a few!) and they've usually been offered a settlement. Eventually.

    I always suggest caution on "cares you have read". I hear this all the time. The cases usually never say what people think they say. There's a human capacity to read what you want it to say.

    And I keep saying this... It gets frustrating.... A disability in law can ONLY be determined by a tribunal. Nobody else can decide it. Not a doctor. Not a lawyer. Not ACAS. Not me. We can all guess, but that doesn't make it so, and in my experience doctors make the worst guesses, because they are doctors and know next to nothing about the law! The support and adjustments that you want are not relevant, even if it's a disability. The support and adjustments the employer thinks are reasonable are what you get! And right now the employer is being told that you aren't ill, you are actually just not liking your employer! That gives them a reasonable case to say that what you want is about something other than disability and they don't have to even consider it. Disability is not protected by law. There may be some grounds for some adjustments, but that's it. No protections.


  16. #56
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    Thanks Sangie,

    You have clarified a lot.


  17. #57
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    In terms of reasonable adjustments based on my employer knowing that I am ill, can I make suggestions to them? I have mentioned this to them but to date they have simply dismissed discussing it.


  18. #58
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    I just want to get an idea of what adjustments would be considered reasonable I have an idea of what I will need once I'm well enough to return to work but don't want to be in a position where I request them and they are not granted and then this is then used to dismiss me.


  19. #59
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    reasonable: can be assessed by size of cost and disruption to business
    Assessment criteria: the kind of disability and the size and type of the company


    Which you are not going to tell us.. and which anyway only a court can decide... IF you have a disability.... which stress/anxiety/depression are often not

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  20. #60
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    Default Re: Group Income Protection - Claim Declined

    Being ill doesn't get you any rights at all. Lots of people are ill. Lots of people have long term illness but aren't disabled.



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