Hi, I have a NTK from an Andrex ppc. What I would like to know is; I must not identify the driver, but at anytime am I obliged in court or otherwise to actually deny that I was the driver. Would appreciate advice thanks.

Hello and welcome to CAG.

I don't think you will be obliged to identify the driver and you're certainly a long way from court. Others will be along later to give you more detail.

Could you give us the information requested in the forum sticky please?

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

Best, HB

Hi, I have a NTK from an Andrex ppc..

From who??

Give the full story please.

when it comes to court and disclosures s

be careful how you word things

Saying something like I was not the driver at the time kills the conversation as no-one can force you to say who was driving

say something like I may have been driving or I may not have

invites questions as to what you know and then the judge may dislike the playing of grandmothers footsteps and order you to say whether it was you or not.

anything you say or write should not be ambiguous

The driver only entered a partial vrn, 4 out of 7, parked correctly and did not overstay.

Received a non pofa NTK within allowed time.

Appeal to company (HX) declined, refused appeal from my MP then gone straight to "

this is serious, exhausted trying to get payment, 7 days to pay or debt collection company"

I've sent them a letter asking them to confirm they are pursuing me as the keeper as per BPA CoP.

Awaiting reply.

They have photos of the car entering and leaving, the driver has not been identified.

I am so angry I am prepared to play the long game.

Many thanks for the quick reply. Regards.

they don't know who was driving, tell them you know that and invite them to prove otherwise.

They can't so the pofa comes into play.

Prepare for debt collection letters threatening everything, ignore the lot until a letter before claim.

Please complete the link in post 2

For PNC's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

please answer the following questions.

1 Date of the infringement3/4

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]6/4

3 Date received 9/4

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] no

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal]

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up only to ppc - refused to cancel

7 Who is the parking company? HX

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] king st , Wigan

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

Thread title amended.

We need to see your appeal please

Read upload

Hi, I only sent a photo of the paid ticket to HX after receiving the NTK, the next day they sent an email saying appeal refused and that I can appeal to the Ipc, but reading other forums I believe they have a vested interest in rejecting appeals so I didn't bother. The next letter that I received was threat number one, if I didn't pay in 7 days. I sent them a letter asking them to confirm they were pursuing me as the keeper as required by BPA CoP. Heard nothing back yet. Regards.

Unfortunately, by asking (or more or less telling) them about the BPA CoP, you've probably identified yourself as a bit of an easy mark who doesn't really know what they're doing.

The BPA CoP for AOS members is of absolutely no concern of HXCPM, they belong to the IPC and not the BPA so don't need to comply with anything that the BPA has to say. Mind you, they don't really need to comply with the IPC CoP either, as that seems to be optional for IPC members

It says on their website that they are members of the BPA.

It says on their website that they are members of the BPA.

They are, but they aren't part of the BPA AOS and therefore don't have to comply with their CoP. They do (and I mean pretty much all PPC's) like to confuse matters as much as possible though, it makes peoples life harder when it comes to untangling the web they like to weave.

The BPA have 2 different logo's (well, 3 really, but only 2 that are are important), the round (BPA AOS) logo and the oblong 'BPA Associate or Member' logo. Those that are a member of the AOS can use just the round one or both, but those that aren't AOS members can only use the oblong one.

The IPC does the same and their logos are, lets say, strikingly similar to the BPA's, although I'm sure there's absolutely no plagiarism

Thanks, suitably educated. I'll ask advice before I take anymore steps. Regards.

so you emailed than ? Thyat is never a sensible idea. They may use this to harass you for free whereas if you wrote to them they would have to spend a quid a letter to bother you. also by appealing a screen ticket they may logically assume that the driver was the keeper judging by the speed you whacked in your appeal.

So now we need to see the wording on their signage and on the ticket machine to progress this. the law is on your side but they dont care about that, they will abuse the courts procedures and time to try and intimidate you into apying but by them it will be an artificially inflated amount because they have to cross subsidise all of the defended claims they lose and pay Will and John for thie marvellous incorrect advice

The ticket that I emailed was the actual pay and display ticket bought from the machine, there was no parking ticket on the screen. I naively thought they'd made a mistake and showing them that a pay and display ticket was bought that they'd drop the matter. I sent a letter to my MP after I received the NTK complaining, and they sent a letter back to me asking for permission to deal with the MP. I've had 3 letters from them so far, no emails, other than the one refusing my (appeal). Even if they do email me I would still reply to them by letter. Do you still want the car park signs? Bit of an old fart so would have to work out how to send them. Many thanks.

If you click on the word upload in this post, you will see instructions for uploading images, Grauniad.

HB

The point of this is that for the future never use email as they can harass you for free, pass your address on so you get all kinds of garnbage from thoer dca'sa nd the like and we know of cases where Gladstones have emailed documents at 5 to midnight on the last day for sending them. they clealy arent still in the offie at this hour so they are setting timers for sending the email to cause the maximum inconvenience whilst attempting to stay within the order of the court. They still got clobbered for abuse of process and unreasonable behaviour on some of the occasions though but better that they never have the address in the first place.

This is not said to tell you off, it is hoped that anyone else reading this thread takes note and avoids potential bother and causes them to waste their money rather than just sending out automated guff

Many thanks HB and Eric's brother.

Many thanks HB and Eric's brother.

Just a general point, if the ppc know the name and address of the driver yet say in writing that they are pursuing the keeper ( more than 28 days after PCN ) can they change their mind and then pursue the driver?

Hi.

Why do you think they know the name and address of the driver? I thought you hadn't told them who it was.

HB

apparently I ticked 'driver' in the drop down box on my initial appeal.

When I received the reply to my SAR they pointed this out but still said they are pursuing me as keeper.

as it is one and the same person it doesnt matter what they call you.

If the driver was a different person then it makes all the difference.

You had better not put all of your hopes on this point when it comes to arguments

Their NTK was pofa non-compliant, does that make a difference?