Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #81
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    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    again you must read more on this, if they are saying they are chasing you under the POFA as keeper then they cant add the 60 unicorn food tax because that wasnt on the original invoice and the so called contractual condition allowing them to do this only applies to the driver so make this point and even if you lose the bill will be less.



    I would also make it known that they ahvent followed the proper court procedure and as such they can be penalised by 25% of the value of the claim. Again if you are losing it would be worth raising this point but you will need to show all of the things they ahve done wriong so start with POC,


    no indication of what claim is for, ie is it a contractual sum or breach of contract? Waht capacity are they claiming? driver or keeper, cant be both. What evidence do they have and so on. So even iof your defence is mostly discounted you can do a lot of damage limitation. Now all of these points should be enough individually but still some judges dont understand the POFA in its entirety so look at the parking pranksters blog and take a copy of a court report published on the 22nd march 2018. That explains the soet of points you need to get across so copy the article and take it with you as well as copy of the POFA itself.


    Kitchen sink time!

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  2. #82
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    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    I've had my day in court. Here is the final and complete defense I used:

    Before we went into the courtroom, the solicitor for VCS approached me and offered me a 50% discount to settle. I declined. He asked me what figure I would settle for, which boosted my confidence enormously, so again I declined. Which was a shame, because unfortunately, I lost, spectacularly.

    The first problem was that the Judge said I could present no new evidence on the day. I did write to the judge after the witness statements were submitted to ask for the opportunity to submit more evidence in response to VCS's statement, and apparently he wrote back giving me a 2 week window to do so. I didn't receive that letter, so I turned up on the day with my defence pack and that annoyed him because he thought I had disregarded his instructions.

    Also, he would only consider evidence relating directly to the 3 line defence I put on the original claim formicon. My witness statement argued six lines of defence, and my final defence pack added a couple more, so most of that was disregarded too!

    After some protestation, he did allow me to read my defence but throughout it, regularly told me he couldn't allow that particular argument.

    I also tried the 'Rights to Audience' trick ericsbrother suggested, but the solicitor said he was also a qualified barrister.

    So the judge eventually summed up, considering three arguments only:
    - whether a contract was formed between me & VCS,
    - whether VCS had the correct contract with the land owner,
    - whether signage had planning permission.

    Contract between me & VCS
    He agreed with Beavis.
    Said the entrance signage was 'sufficient & prominent'.
    Internal signs were to be expected and so should have been noticed.
    The internal signs were legible and the driver didn't bother to read them.

    Contract with landowner
    He believed a contract did exist, even though one wasn't produced, despite a CPR 34.14. I pointed out that the letter of authority included in their witness statement was not signed by the landowner, was printed on VCS letter headed paper and was dated 3 months after the incident, but to no avail.

    Planning Permission
    He said the burden of proof was on me to show that they were in breach of planning law. He accepted VCS's claim that the signs have deemed consent. And he said that, even if they did breach planning law, it wouldn't stop a contract being formed. He didn't accept that breaching planning law was a criminal act, unless the matter was in enforcement. He would not allow the suggestion that the ANPR cameras also need P.P.

    After the hearing, the solicitor said I put up really good arguments and said it seemed more easy than he expected. He didn't actually say so, but he seemed surprised to have won.

    I'll post up the actual Judgement when it comes through.



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  3. #83
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    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    Judge lottery sadly

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  4. #84
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    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    It's hard to believe that any Judge does not know that if lack of PP is illegal
    Then it follows that a contract cannot be formed.


  5. #85
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    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    Oh I forgot to tell you.

    The judge also rejected the POFA argument that by pursuing me as the keeper, VCS should only ask me for the original PCN amount.
    But he then reduced the payment to 100 (plus interest) anyway because he didn't accept that VCS had incurred 65 pursuing the payment.

    He also didn't allow court and legal fees.
    So I did have a part success.


  6. #86
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    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    so what did it cost you then?

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  7. #87
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    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    108.60.

    Before I went in, it stood at 185 and the claimant asked for an extra 50 solicitor's fee and 15(ish) interest. So I could have been out of pocket by as much as 250.00.

    The judge would only allow the 100 PCN plus 8.60 interest. So it could have been worse.

    I'm still a bit fed up about losing, though.


  8. #88
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    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    was it a solicitor? did you ask for their credentials?


    I agree with the above comments, your judge didnt do his job properly but unfortunately that happens and unless you state you wnat to appeal there and then on points of law becasue you think the judge has misdirected himself there is no chance you will get anywhere afterwards.

    Still cheaper for you than otherwise and it will have cost VCS more than they made to process this.

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