Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 88
  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.




    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : May 2006

    Posts
    65

    Default VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    Hello everyone

    Last August (2017) I parked in a small carpark outside a parade of shops and went to have lunch with family.

    There was no pay & display machine and I genuinely thought it was free parking.

    Some time later, I received a letter telling me that my registration number had been detected on the way in and out of the carpark and I had overstayed the allowed amount of time. They wanted me to pay a fine.

    I ignoredicon the letter, believing that it was not enforceable, and also ignored one or two reminders.

    A few days ago I received two pieces of correspondence.

    One was a Particulars of Claim from the parking company, filling two pages, quoting a Claim No. and with an accompanying letter saying that a copy had been filed with the court.

    The other was a claim formicon from county courticon Business Centre.

    This also included information in the Particulars of Claim box but, interestingly, this particulars of claim was different and very much briefer than the one sent to me.

    I'm not sure if that is significant.

    The longer Particulars (the one sent direct to me) mentioned such things as "failure to adhere to advertised terms & conditions", "breach of contract for failing to adhere to the terms & conditions" and that their terms & conditions were "accepted by conduct" (ie presumably by me parking).

    They are claiming £160 plus £25 court fee, plus interest.

    My contention is that, no matter how obvious they claim the signage to be, if I didn't see them then they were not obvious enough. Surely it is their responsibility to make sure I see it, not mine to look for it. If I didn't see a sign then I couldn't have agreed to their conditions and no contract was made. Unfortunately, the carpark is nearly 100 miles from where I live and I cannot easily go back and check the signs.

    I have seen a sticky thread (with the confusing title 'CPR 31.14 Request to use on receipt of a PPC') which suggests I should ask the parking company for a copy of their contract with the land owner. Surely that is confidentialicon and they will refuse/ignoreicon my request? The same with asking for copies of planning consents relating to erecting signage. What if the documents cannot be secured in time for me to use them in my defense? Is there any way for me to ask the court to suspend action while I wait to receive requested information from the claimant?

    I am up for fighting this, if you guys think there is much chance of winning, but I am not very confident about this sort of thing. If anyone is prepared to hold my hand and walk me through it, I'll have a go. Can anybody help me?

    The issue date on the court Claim Form is 21 May 2018.

    Thanks,

    John

    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  2. #2
    Site Team The Consumer Action Group BankFodder's Avatar



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Jan 2006

    Posts
    28,458
    Blog Entries
    17

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    I think you should start off by telling us which company is it who is suing you. Also, have you been back to the car park to check the signage? This would be a good idea.

    Please will you post up the claim in PDFicon format. Make sure it is redacted for identifiers, of course



    Warning: I use dictation software. Beware of homophones!
    Have you read our dealing with customer services guide?
    Please don't pm me about specific questions unless you have posted and it has not been dealt with or unless the matter is confidential.

    All attribution rights and moral rights in my copyright work are asserted
    Advice & opinions of BankFodder, The Consumer Action Group and The Bank Action Group are offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    1

  3. #3

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    Please complete this
    https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.u...ed-Aug-2016***

    So we have all the correct info to help you

    Yes get that CPR running and do Acknowledgement of Service

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
    it makes a thread twice as long to scroll through..save data download times and costs
    If you want advice please PM me a link to your thread. PM advice is not allowed!!
    DX
    RIP Martin3030

    Follows
    1
    Following
    0

  4. #4

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    we can help yu but you will have to tell yourself you are going to win this and the doubts you have regarding the truths surrounding certain things are easy to overcome. Think of it like this.

    As it stands you are £185 out of pocket so anything you do that reduces this is a win.

    We think that it is unlikely that you actually owe anything at all. the £160 include monies the parking co cant lawfully claim from you so even if you lost the actual claim for breach of contract you will only owe £100 at most so a saving of £60.

    Now, we need to know a lot about the event and what you have still got in the way of paperwork. so start off with the where and when, what letters have you received and when, do you still have them.

    Next we need to know about where.
    We need an exact location
    we want pictures of the entrance to the land from the public highway (we can google the place as well) and
    pictures of the signage there,
    both at the entrance and
    any different signs that are elsewhere on the land

    . we need to know how big the signs are
    , how many and whether they are illuminated or not (even by a streetlamp).
    If the signs are partially obscured by wheelie bins or trees we need to know that as well.

    Once we have the full where we will get you to do soke digging on who owns the land and whether planning consent was granted for their signage (they need it regardless of what they claim)

    Lastly we can pick holes in their claim as being inadequate for the purposes of CPR's but that usually just gets them an instruction to do it again

    so your skeleton defence Will partially be around this as they have failed so far to show a proper cause for action as the claim is too vague to determine why they are claiming form you and in what capacity (driver or keeper).

    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  5. #5
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.




    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : May 2006

    Posts
    65

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    Thanks Guys

    Yes I will post PDFs of the relevant paperwork, as soon as get home and figure out how to do it. I'll have a good look to see if I have any other correspondence. There is a chance I could get someone else to check the signage for me. The carpark is in Sheffield which is a long way from North Wales where I live, but I have family in that direction.

    dx100uk

    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post

    Yes get CPR running and do Acknowledgement of Service
    What does that mean?

    ericsbrother,
    I don't understand why, if I lose, I could only owe £100. Would you mind explaining in idiot-proof language for me.

    I'll try to get everything done that you've all asked for in the next few hours. In the meantime, thanks you all very much. I'm very grateful and I'm looking forward to a possible punch-up, so as to speak.

    John


  6. #6

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    CPR = Civil Procedureicon Request CPR 31.14 and AoS ...acknowledge service of the claim formicon

    We could do with some help from you

    PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING
    EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS



    If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  7. #7

    Default

    If you turn up at court and point out that the POFA only allows the parking co to claim the amount originally invoiced from the keeper then the maximum charge is £100.

    The signage may well have blurb about adding extra recovery costs but the keeper hasnt agreed to any contract so they are only liable for the monies due as a result of the breach of contract.

    The claim will fudge this rather important detail so you need to be in there and arguing against the extra bit.

    The claimant may well then fall foul of the newer rules on proper filling out of the claims formicon and they will get that £100 reduced to as little as £50 for their naughty behaviour.

    Something to consider even if they have a watertight contract via their signage and letters ( they wont, they arent bright enough to get it right and too greedy to care anyway)

    tell us where it was and we can start looking on google streetview and be ahead of the game

    Sheffield is a bit too vague and you still havent named the parking co.

    Both are important, nealry all parking co's have previous form we can refer to and that will includ ethier standard letters, which solicitor they use and so on.


  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.




    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : May 2006

    Posts
    65

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    Thanks for that ericsbrother. Thatís good to fall back on.

    Right, before I scan & post the docs, here are some further details:

    Parking Co: Vehicle Control Services, Sheffield

    Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RDicon, Sheffield, S11 8PN


  9. #9

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    Title updated

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
    it makes a thread twice as long to scroll through..save data download times and costs
    If you want advice please PM me a link to your thread. PM advice is not allowed!!
    DX
    RIP Martin3030

    Follows
    1
    Following
    0

  10. #10

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    located the place and there is a sign at the entrance.

    Firstly it is on the LHS of the entrance so any driver cant read it as they go past it.

    Secondly the sign itself says you have to read the other signs for the contractual terms and that means it isnt a contract but an invitation to treat and that means you dont have to accept the terms of the subsequent offer and still park there.

    The other signs arent readable from any distance and arent illuminated so wont be legible at night. That means the signage will struggle to be considered as offering anything at all.

    VCS have plenty of history for rubbish signage and then lose their claims. They have given up instructing solicitors as they lose less money by shooting themselves in the foot rather than getting someone else to shoot their toes for them.

    Now sheffield have their planning applications available through a portal so should be easy to look up any recent applications but you may need to phone the planning dept to ask them about PP for VCS.

    Also check whether the planning consent for the development has anything regarding parking in it, many do say 3 hours parking and that cant be altered by some bandit parking co nor even the landowner without getting new consent.

    lastly there is a sign saying the palce is managed by some other company. I woudl bet that the VCS contract is with them and not th landowner. that menas it is unlikely the landlord has assigned the right to VCS to make money out of suing people in their own name and that means they have no locus standi and cant win a claim cos the law says they have no right to sue.

    You will need to sedn VCS a CPR 31.14 request for information to see their contract with the landowner and their planning permission. They wont respond but by not doing so they ruin their chances of getting anywhere.

    Lastly the sign says that you agree to be bound by the unreadable signs if you stay there for more than 10 minutes. well, that makes any claim a claim for a contractual charge and they are suing you for breach of contract, which is different.

    Like saying you are the driver/keeper, it is one or the other, not both and that is something to stick in your defence to get the judge to put all of these things together and makea bigger picture when they may be not thinking they are good enough on their own (they should be, the POFA is explicit)

    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  11. #11
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.




    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : May 2006

    Posts
    65

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    Wow ericsbrother, that is amazing. Very impressive. Thank you very much. I’m itching to get stuck in now.

    Unfortunately, I’m away for a couple of days with work and may not get an opportunity to post while I’m gone.

    I’ve had trouble getting my scanner to work properly and so have not been able to produce the PDFs of the correspondence.
    I’ll sort it all out when I get back.

    In the meantime, if I get any free time I’ll start drafting the CPR 31.14 request.

    Thank you all again for your advice, especially ericsbrother, who has gone to so much trouble.


  12. #12

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    If you don't have a working scanner, can you use your phone and take photos of the documents?

    HB

    PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING
    EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS



    If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

    Illegitimi non carborundum.

    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  13. #13

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    You dont need to draft a cpr simply print and send our one
    You need to get that done now...

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
    it makes a thread twice as long to scroll through..save data download times and costs
    If you want advice please PM me a link to your thread. PM advice is not allowed!!
    DX
    RIP Martin3030

    Follows
    1
    Following
    0

  14. #14

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
    it makes a thread twice as long to scroll through..save data download times and costs
    If you want advice please PM me a link to your thread. PM advice is not allowed!!
    DX
    RIP Martin3030

    Follows
    1
    Following
    0

  15. #15
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.




    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : May 2006

    Posts
    65

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    Hello Guys

    Right, here are copies of the documents you have requested. I'd like to say once again how grateful I am for your help and impressed I am with your knowledge.

    The parking incident was on 23 Aug 2017

    Acknowledgement of Service done online yesterday, 29 May 2018

    Attachments Pending Approval Attachments Pending Approval

  16. #16

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    Please put all your uploads into one multipage PDFicon
    Else we'll be here all day downloading

    Read uploadicon

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
    it makes a thread twice as long to scroll through..save data download times and costs
    If you want advice please PM me a link to your thread. PM advice is not allowed!!
    DX
    RIP Martin3030

    Follows
    1
    Following
    0

  17. #17
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.




    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : May 2006

    Posts
    65

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post
    Please put all your uploads into one multipage PDFicon
    Else we'll be here all day downloading
    Sorry guys, I misunderstood the instructions. Each one of these is a small multi-page document. I'll know for next time.


  18. #18

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    ok

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
    it makes a thread twice as long to scroll through..save data download times and costs
    If you want advice please PM me a link to your thread. PM advice is not allowed!!
    DX
    RIP Martin3030

    Follows
    1
    Following
    0

  19. #19

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    had to hide them all
    POCicon has case number showing

    cpr not needed we know what our template says

    letter before claimicon has ref no's

    clamform has case ref and password
    we don't need to see a claimformicon we know what they look like

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
    it makes a thread twice as long to scroll through..save data download times and costs
    If you want advice please PM me a link to your thread. PM advice is not allowed!!
    DX
    RIP Martin3030

    Follows
    1
    Following
    0

  20. #20
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.




    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : May 2006

    Posts
    65

    Default Re: VCS PCN Caimform - Car park: Berkeley Centre, Ecclesall RD, Sheffield, S11 8PN

    Ok, thanks dx100uk

    Unfortunately I am at work at the moment on a late shift, but will modify and re-submit them in the morning.

    I enclosed the claim formicon because it contains POCicon which are different to the ones sent direct to me and contained in one of the other docs.

    The CPR is similar but longer than the one on this site. I got two different templates and combined them.


Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread


Reclaim the Right Ltd. - reg.05783665 in the UK reg. office:- 923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE
We use cookies to personalise content and ads and to provide social media features. We also share information about your use of our site with our advertising and analytics partners. See details