Thanks Sangie. Great tip on the application writing thanks. One more question, how long would you as an employer want a statement to be? One side of A4? Two? As many as it takes to cover what's needed?

I'm not an employer. I'm a union officer. But I deal with recruitment a lot. And the answer is "as long as a piece of string". It depends on what the job is and what the employer is asking for. Sometimes a page is too much. Sometimes four pages are too little. Don't ramble. Don't put in lots of extraneous words. Then if you've put something against every heading, it's the right length!

Yep of course I understand that but at the same time if they weren't being untruthful I wouldn't be posting here. I'm trying to see a way to salvage a career as a TA and make sure that one untruthful reference can't destroy the positive references of the past.

Under the DPA 1998, the information any organization holds on you must be accurate

As suggested, go as peacefully as you can.

If you get a bad reference then you can challenge the accuracy of the reference

But my advice is that you wait first to get the reference.

You first make a DSAR and see what has been said about you.

But I will repeat my advice; WAIT till you get the bad reference.

In your situation, it is very important you wait!

Many thanks to you all, two more questions if I may?

One day a week we stay late for staff training. If I am on my way out legally do I still have to attend this as it all seems a bit pointless now?

Also apparently this month TA's are going to be assessed in class. Once again if I am on my way out am I within my rights to ask to be excluded from the assessment as again it all seems a bit pointless?

Reasons for the questions are because I have decided to apply for jobs in other areas so am not going to be applying for any further TA jobs.

No you aren't worn your rights to do either. You are still employed, and can still be dismissed or disciplined. I suspect that both are likely to be part of the schools requirements for staff, on the way out or not, but you can ask your manager if you need to attend given the fact you are leaving.

Thanks for all your advice.

Just an interesting update. On Monday I decided to send a letter to the Assistant Head who was the person involved in the saga above, the Headmaster and HR. It was a polite letter just outlining my disappointment etc that the above occurred and basically outlining what was said/done at the meetings.

I was then called in today to see the Assistant Head who said that a meeting had taken place and that HR had basically told them that they could not move me on to the Fixed Contract and that they had to honour the Permanent contract I had been given. They also had to give me a proper probation period, which I believe will be for the next four weeks or so and have to be informed verbally and in writing as to what, if anything, I am doing wrong and need to work on.

At the very least I now will know what and who I am dealing with regard to what I consider untruths about my performance. I will however adhere to any negatives and work on whatever those negatives are, regardless of whether I agree with them or not. Whether I will still have the job after this probation period I have no idea but at least I will now have weekly meetings with the Assistant Head and my Line Manager who I do trust and believe that he is in support of me. If he isn't I guess I will at least find out at these meetings!! At least now everything is out in the open and I will know what the criticisms are and "who" they are from and can now hopefully deflect any knives coming from the front rather than being unaware that I am being stabbed in the back!

If it doesn't help me then maybe at least this will change their policies with regard to doing things the "correct" way and that will hopefully benefit someone in the future.

PS - I joined the Union online last night!!!!!

I am confused about how they can honour the permanant bit of your contract yet choose to flex the probation you have already passed by default. I don't think it is mix and match.

Did you sign anything?

Not been offered to sign anything it was just a meeting and then a couple of letters, I can post them on here if you like? With names etc deleted of course.

They or the Assistant Head I should say, has sent one letter stating that my Line Manager "at the 3 month probation period may not have given me any indication that my performance was less than satisfactory and therefore the need to improve and recent observations, both formally and informally, have shown there to be some issues. We will extend the probation period by 1 months and agree a supportive improvement plan against TA Standards".

What is confusing about that is that my Line Manager passed my 3 months probation and the form was passed to the Assistant Head showing I had passed that 3 month period and yet she has waited until 6 months has passed to a. tell me that there are some issues and b. Basically belittles my Line Manager saying he got it wrong, which he is fuming about.

Obviously she thought that I was on a Fixed Contract so I would be gone at the end of July anyway and as I said before she had no negatives to say at that point. It was only when she found out I was on the wrong contract (permanent one) that these negative "issues" came about.

Interestingly the letter today outlining the issues and my targets to meet made no mention of three of the issues she brought up last week and new improved concerns laid out in education jargon have now appeared. The Assistant Head is clearly making it up as she goes along. For example one concern claims I am over supportive to students whereas another says I am not supportive enough!!!!

Also I decided to be "proactive" with my learning and asked one or two teachers if I could give them a form where they could note my strengths and weaknesses so to speak and they were very forthcoming. However when I mentioned this to the Assistant Head she basically shot down the idea muttering something about teachers confidentiality and yet it is clear to me why. Why? (Allegedly) It's because if I were to do this I would know exactly which class and which teachers are putting forward the negative concerns and considering from what I have been told and that's 6 of the 9 teachers I am in lessons with have apparently said I am very supportive and doing well which leaves the Assistant Head and her two best mates!!

Not sure if she can legally stop me from doing this as when push comes to shove in a few weeks time she could still declare on my probation that my targets have not been met and yet I would still have no idea who has mentioned the negativity. I mean if 6 think I am doing well and 3 say I'm not and the Assistant Head is one of them then is it really fair? Plus even if I am meeting those targets but the Assistant Head in three weeks states I am not (which I am sure she will do) I cannot prove otherwise.

I must say everything, that includes meetings and letters are being done by the Assistant Head who is of course the person at the centre of all this and of which I have a grievance with and I must admit I find it all quite uncomfortable. She of course is my Manager so to speak after my Line Manager but if I for instance refused to deal with her I am afraid to rock the boat even more

To be honest, you are spending too much time and energy on this. You've been told this before, but what they call your contract, fixed term or permanent, is completely and utterly irrelevant. Probation is irrelevant. You have less than two years continuous service, so unfair dismissal is out of your reach. So the fact is that the truth is irrelevant. Facts are irrelevant. Rock the boat or not, that's your decision. But I do not see any prospects at all for the long term in a TA taking on an Assistant Headteacher. There is no feasible way that the TA wins. You MIGHT get to keep a job for now, but at what cost? And actually they know this, because if they had the slightest inkling about what the law says, and I'm sure they do, it is too late to extend your probation and they technically can't do it in any meaningful way. Not that it matters to anything now anyway.

If your are going to fight back, have at it, but then don't say your are afraid to rock the boat, because that boat is taking on water as it is. If you want a peaceful exit, stick your head down and leave quietly. There is no middle course here.

I was with you, but you've just gone a bit mad again there.

If they have given you improvements to make, just do them

Emmzzi I agree with you I can try and make the improvements, although I suspect even if I improve them I will still not pass the probation. For instance the criticism of not adhering to teachers instructions I found out what that was about and I misheard (I am partially deaf) but it was put down as not adhering to teachers instruction. I guess I'll just have to turn the hearing aid up!! The "targets" set due to my inexperience are from what I have read are down to not having the appropriate training in some areas and not being told about certain things. Training I wouldn't have received anyway on a Fixed Contract but should have received under a Permanent Contract. So the "probation" is aimed at those targets so to meet them I will probably have to have 6 months worth of training and target meeting in 3 weeks to pass the probation. If that makes any sense!!!

Sangie595 Well they have given me an extended 3 week probation after HR got involved as stated above...….So what would you do? Ironically my position was probably better with the fixed term contract because I could just leave at the end of that and it would probably look better on a CV. As it stands I either try and improve to the standards she wants and probably get the boot anyway or walk out quietly, but resigning quietly looks worse on a CV than having the contract terminated I am told.

I really don't know what you are trying to achieve here. And you already know what I would do. I would have taken the deal on the table to go quietly, because I know that a TA never wins a battle against a deputy head teacher. So I'd have politely told HR that I was ok and I didn't need their intervention. HR didn't "get involved" - they were involved because you were arguing about the contract, which was always a red herring, and they have to know that. Nor do I have any idea who told you that resigning always looks bad on a CV. Getting sacked does. Falling your probation might. Resigning is up to you to explain. "I found the traveling too much"... "My mum was expecting to go into hospital and would have needed my help, but then my sister volunteered to do this as she's just been made redundant "....."There was a muddle on my contract and I wasn't happy with the way it was handled".... You can say whatever you want.

But if you are intent on hanging in there until you are dismissed, whether now or later, then that's a choice you can make.

Emmzzi I agree with you I can try and make the improvements, although I suspect even if I improve them I will still not pass the probation.

Then stop torturing yourself. You are the only person you have to prove anything to in this life.

I really don't know what you are trying to achieve here. And you already know what I would do. I would have taken the deal on the table to go quietly, because I know that a TA never wins a battle against a deputy head teacher. So I'd have politely told HR that I was ok and I didn't need their intervention. HR didn't "get involved" - they were involved because you were arguing about the contract, which was always a red herring, and they have to know that. Nor do I have any idea who told you that resigning always looks bad on a CV. Getting sacked does. Falling your probation might. Resigning is up to you to explain. "I found the traveling too much"... "My mum was expecting to go into hospital and would have needed my help, but then my sister volunteered to do this as she's just been made redundant "....."There was a muddle on my contract and I wasn't happy with the way it was handled".... You can say whatever you want.

 

But if you are intent on hanging in there until you are dismissed, whether now or later, then that's a choice you can make.

Well HR got involved because of the letter I sent but it generally mentioned what had gone on and that I was accepting the terms of exit but wanted the terms in writing purely to cover myself with regard to owing any money to the Council in the event of an early exit which would not have been my fault. Unfortunately if I were to resign, which as you say would probably be the better option the "agreement" on owed monies would now not be on the table so if I resign early I will probably owe pro rata monies which I cannot afford.

Plus I have just remembered if I cannot get another job immediately I would need to claim JSA and I believe you can't claim that for a number of weeks if you resign.

It's not that easy if you're dismissed either.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/leaving-a-job/dismissal/after-youve-been-dismissed/

The best reason would be the end of your fixed term contract, I imagine, but possibly the time for that has passed.

HB

Sangie, I am doing my best against people in charge who have told untruths and are making things up as they go along. The Asst Head at the very first meeting when we discussed contracts stated that she would check with HR on what contract I was on and she did and that's when she found out. That's before I did anything so HR came back about the contract before I sent any letter so regardless of whether I sent a letter or not HR had already spoken to the Asst Head about it and told her I was not on a Fixed Term. The letter I wrote was actually "accepting" their terms and wanting everything in writing and I was advised to send it to the Asst Head, The Head, HR and my Line Manager. So as I say regardless of letter or no letter HR knew and had discussed with them before I did anything. I misworded a previous post.

BTW Thank you HB.

your posts 33 and 42 about if you signed anything contradict each other

By "accepting" their offer you have effectively signed away any rights of protection you had - you were out of probation by defaut and you've put yourself back in.

Stop expecting HR to help. They are there for the employer, not you.

Emmzzi I didn't contradict myself. I haven't signed anything "they" have given me, all I did after being advised to make a peaceful exit and accept the Managements terms was to send a letter accepting their verbal offer and asking for the terms in writing.

And they have noew retracted that? 100%?

And they have noew retracted that? 100%?

I have absolutely no idea I haven't had a say on it. I was after reading advice on here accepting to go (and still am) with the quiet exit and accept the terms, hence the letter, because I needed clarification in writing re time off for interviews, no money owed and a neutral reference as I had been told. I would then go at the end of July, end of June, whenever they wanted. I would have been stupid only to have accepted it verbally because I had nothing in writing.

After the Asst Head had talked to HR about the contract that's when HR told them they had to honour the permanent contract and that's when it snowballed into this probation fiasco which I can't pass probably because I was already told there are no vacancies that I can apply for next year. I haven't even as yet been asked if I am happy with that or been asked to sign anything to state that it's just been thrust upon me that because they have to honour the contract I have now got these impossible probation targets to meet. As I say I wasn't given the training as you would have done if it had been a permanent position. I didn't know any different I assumed we were all singing from the same hymn sheet until two weeks ago so without the 6 months correct training some of the targets are impossible to meet in 3 weeks.

Ideally I just want to say "Look there has been some confusion, I was accepting the Fixed Terms and was willing to go but wanted clarification on the three points above but HR have now said that the school has to honour the contract and give me a probation that is obviously a lot of unnecessary pointless work for both the school and myself considering my level of training and the fact that there are no vacancies anyway. Can I ask for a contract change acceptable to all parties that I will work until the school wants me to work as a Fixed Period Contract or whatever they want to call it then leave with no monies owed, a neutral reference and time off for interviews as originally offered by the Assistant Head as a clean break for both parties."

Not necessarily worded like that but you get the gist. The contract states that it can be changed if agreeable to both parties. But I haven't a clue who to approach with this. A quiet word with the Asst Head on her own or to HR or to both at the same time as I don't want to go behind anyone's back which I haven't done in this whole saga.

You've nothing at all to lose by asking - do you?

Not at all but who would you ask, The Asst Head? HR? Both at the same time?

I'd ask the head. HR are just going to make sure he does it legally. They dont decide anything.

The Head hasn't dealt with anything it's all been done by the Asst Head so did you mean her or go to the Head? I don't want to go behind her back.