Hello all.

Apologies for yet another UKCPM parking charge question.

But I would like specific help if you are able to.

I would be very grateful.

I went to a place called the vista centre and it took me about 30 mins to pay for parking.

I arrived at Vista Point at approximately 14:30 for a 14:45 appointment.

The site had a ridiculous payment system (via installing an app or calling an automated number - where the computer didn’t recognise my voice) and caused me to almost miss a Drug and Alcohol test for a new job.

Not easy for any user to pay for parking.

No cash option was displayed.

I called and downloaded the app, but both systems were not able to process my payment after several attempts.

Eventually, I found the only parking machine and paid using cash (for 1hour). It was the only 1 on site, which was not displayed or obvious.

I have email evidence and complaints to the drug and alcohol test company for not informing me of the difficulty.

I undertook my Drug & Alcohol test, which overran due to my being late to pay for parking. (Also, you are not allowed to leave the room until the test in finished).

Not being able to use the app or leave the room during my test, I could not extend my parking duration.

I therefore returned to my car approximately 10-11 minutes after my ticket expired - finding a £60 charge.

Without knowing about private parking charges,

I wrote to UKCPM to appeal

they said I need to appeal to IAS.

Which I did

- I also wrote back to UKCPM to tell them I wanted to appeal (this was done within 7 days).

I also registered with IAS and for some reason they said (im not sure if I did or not) confirm my email address, therefore the appeal can no longer go ahead.

1) Should I pay the charge?

2) I write to them showing my address (and email). Is it too late?

3) If they write back, can I just write "Return to Sender, the Recipient no longer lives here" and forget about the claim?

Many thanks,

matt

Can i ask you where they state this is a fine please?

Please co mplete this

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

Hi dx.

it doesnt say fine.

It says "Parking Charge Notice"

I'll answer your questions in the next reply

Answer to your questions:

1 The date of infringement? - 12th March 2018

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? Y

I cannot upload to this site until i've posted 10 times (apparently)

has there been a response?

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide] - Yes...only to my first letter appealing the charge (at the moment)

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

what date is on it

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? Yes

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] N

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process? Y- using the IAS

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

5 Who is the parking company? UKCPM

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Vista Centre, Houslow. Location Code: 565

Current documents / communication with UKCPM

Answer to your questions (UPDATED):

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

1 The date of infringement? 12th March 2018

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? Y

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. Now Uploaded - see pdf

has there been a response? Y

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. See PDF

If you haven't appealed yet – n/a

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

what date is on it

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? n/a

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] N

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] My response (not NTK) mentioned IAS appeal service

5 Who is the parking company? UKCPM

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Vista Centre, Salisbury Road, Hounsow, Hounslow TW4 6JQ

windscreen pcm.pdf

thread tidied

thank you for taking the time to make things clearer

there is a +10mins grace period that applies to all private parking spacing..

I would not be responding further until advised

shame you Id'd yourself in you appeal

for next time

always remember use the words 'the driver' never I me etc in first party mode making nya reply or appeal

thank you for that.

Your comments have been noted if it happens again.

I'll let you know if they reply.

never appeal these charges until you have taken advice on the lawfulness of the demand and what to say if anything.

Also NEVER appeal a screen ticket, you make them wait and issue a NTK as that gives them futher hurdles to jump and the normally gte that wrong.

So, they will reject your appeal and chase you for the mopney so we need to see the signage at the site to have something heavier to clobber them with, your troubles should be enough but it is always better to arm youself for any eventuality

Hi

You have done yourself no favours here as you have named yourself as the driver.

This means that any claim against you can be started any time in the next 6 years.

Chances are though that IF court action is considered it will be sooner rather than later.

We need you to go back to the site (if possible) to take pictures of the parking signs. Google Streetview doesn't help me at all here.

I think that you would have a reasonable chance of beating this for the following reasons.

The 10 minute grace period was only just allowed but that is the minimum time that should be allowed.

You were held up through no fault of your own and the dearth of cash only machines delayed you even more.

Dependant on the signs, there may be issues there as well but we will have to see them first.

It would be worth checking with the local council for that area to see if UKPCM have planning permission for the signs. You would be surprised how many don't bother.

It is also worth finding out who the landowner or managing agent is for the site and complain to them

Thank you, but didn't know the difference between council enforced tickets and private company notices at the time

I'll go back to the site to take photos (as previously requested).

ALSO, I received a demand letter from UKCPM today. Any advice?

2 - Formal Demand.pdf

Morning,

You have already edited the image which is what DX was on about.

I spent some time looking at the Planning section of the local council in that area and I could find nothing whatsoever regarding planning permission for the signage at the Vista Centre. I also tried a postcode search and a name search which also revealed nothing so I suspect that no planning application was made when UKPCM took over the running of the parking management.

As for that letter, they haven't stated what time you actually left even though they didn't have to but all they did was issue a ticket at the very end of the grace period. How would they know if you were on the way back to the car at the same time the ticket was issued. Personally, I would ignore it for now.

As soon as we can see the signs, we will be able to advise better

ok.... I was just checking if it was actually the reference number was the issue. It clearly was. Thanks for looking after my interests.

Thats interesting to know about the lack of planning permission.

I'm planning to go back to the site on friday/saturday to take photos of the signage for you kind folk.

Thanks again for your help.

Hello All,

As promised, please see photos of signs along with a map and brief explanations and further information.

Many thanks

Photos of signs and area.pdf

signs are not offering a contract,

they dont actually have any conditions that if breached result in you owing them money as their wording is too mixed up.

Also, they dont have the information as to who is offering a contract, a PO box no not good enough and no indication as to who the trade association they belong to are.

These are necessary to create the conditions under the POFA to create a liability and also a neccessity under normal contract law.

Still being IPC members they dont have to obey the law because their glorious eaders, Will and Jogn have superpowers that trump any defence you may concoct. Shame the judges havent been told about this and keep deciding that the claims are rubbish!

also you have to think about mitigation- they diditn try hard enough to collect the money as their app is pants and that isnt your worry, you tried and they refused the payment so you can park for free cos the sigange dooesnt have a clause stating they are rubbish at their job and you thus have to go away instead of parking..

Hi all...so what do you think I should do about this letter?>

nothing.

Hi All.

I got a letter from DRP today.

From the other threads i understand i shouldn't worry about this letter?

letter - september.pdf

Ooh scary scary-NOT!

DR plus are debt collectors who's only role is to chase parking matters. They have no authority over you and as such you can ignore them. The only time to react is if you get something from Gladstones or BW Legal.

Gladstone owners also own the IPC and they also run the laughably IAS so you can see that any appeal to them would go nowhere.

If you had parked in a car park run by a company who was with the BPA, any appeal would have the name of the assessor on it; with the IPC, they like to keep their assessors names out of any decision which begs the question, "What have they got to hide?"

you are correct, it means nothing at all. File it with the other paperwork as you can use it to beat them with if UKPCM are daft enough to try their luck with a claim

until/unless you get a letter of claim from their fake/tame paper sols you ignore

Hey Silverfox (and all),

I've got a couple more letters since the one above.... the second one I haven't opened. I've written "Return to sender, Person does not live here" on the envelope. Do you think that would deter them?

many thanks

no

don't bother

you should atleast be opening and scanning them.

I agree. return to sender will just delay matters and the unopened letter may just contain something that you need to take action on.

UKCPM do take people to court but from what we have gleaned over time, it's likely that if they do, there is enough evidence to defeat them

On the PADI website, they list the amount of tickets and court claims however, they have an interest in this company so if you do get a court claim you can update them and us.

http://tinyurl.com/yap9c82p

sorry but that was a stupid thing to do as now they may well try and issue a county court summons with the belief that you are not in a position to defend it and thus expect a win by default. Although it wont change the outcome why invite trouble?

Hey Silverfox (and all),

 

I've got a couple more letters since the one above.... the second one I haven't opened. I've written "Return to sender, Person does not live here" on the envelope. Do you think that would deter them?

 

many thanks

I don't think I explained myself properly.

I didn't send anything - I wrote it on the envelope (thinking it might deter them) then I asked this forum.

Everyone said not to send, so I didn't.

good work

open and scan them.

make sure the title is not 'letter of/before claim'

that one you should respond too as stated above

interesting the padi website says the 10 min is 10 mins nothing but a few seconds over is worth using this in a defence...

its a minimum of 10 mins with no quoted maximum...

Hi all,

please see attached the following 2 letters that I received.

docs1.pdf