Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #1
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    Default Cel pcn Lambourne House, Bridge Cross Rd, Burntwood, WS7 2BX

    Received a PCN dated 14/05/18 from CEL for the 05/05/18 for the time frame of 19:24:06 to 22:06:12.

    We did pay parking but I can not remember how long for (think it was 2hrs as we attended a restaurant which was v.busy)

    I've checked on local authority for planning permission (is it required?) and I can not see that it has been granted for changing from free parking to paid.

    The location of the car park is Lambourne House, Bridge Cross RDicon, Burntwood, WS7 2BX.

    I'm a bit peeved that despite paying, they expect 100 for being over the time I paid for, despite it being due to how busy the restaurant was.

    Any suggestions, I've been told by someone at work to write to them stating that I dispute not appeal and request to see a copy of the contract, showing the restrictions, the charges, the dates and terms of business including any payments
    between them and the landowner and the definition of status as agents or contractors and assigned rights (if any).

    And ask "the legal basis of your charge, which is not clear (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee). As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the basis of your allegations.

    i. If alleging breach of contract, please supply a breakdown of your alleged 'loss' and state the intention of your enforcement (i.e. deterrent or revenue).
    ii. If alleging trespass, enclose further evidence of the perpetrator, proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum by the landholder.
    iii. If alleging 'contractual fee' I request a VAT invoice by return and your explanation of how you can allow drivers to park 'in breach' for a fee when your client
    originally contracted you in order to disallow and deter - not allow and profit from - unauthorised parking. I contend this charge is merely a penalty which is not
    recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014 Appeal).

    Please supply proof of your locus standi to offer contracts to drivers at this site and to bring a claim in your own right for this particular contravention. "

    Does that sound right or is there anything else?


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    Default Re: Cel pcn

    Hi.

    Can you provide the information requested in the forum sticky please?

    https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.u...Parking-Ticket

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Cel pcn

    Type:parking chargeicon Notice
    Company: Civil Enforcement Ltd
    Date of PNC: 14/05/18
    Date received: 18/05/18
    Infringement date: 05/05/18
    Duration: 19:24:06 to 22:06:12
    Location: Lambourne House, Bridge Cross RDicon, Burntwood, WS7 2BX.

    I have not yet appealed or disputed

    No NTK - it's just a parking chargeicon Notice with no pictures. States 100 or 60 within 14days.
    "Failure to pay the amount due within 28days of issue date may result in civil enforcement ltd (the creditor) forwarding your account to debt recovery agency.

    It does state under how to pay: Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) and doesn't mention BPA or IAS


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    Default Re: Cel pcn Lambourne House, Bridge Cross Rd, Burntwood, WS7 2BX

    Thank you, I've amended your thread title.

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    Default Re: Cel pcn Lambourne House, Bridge Cross Rd, Burntwood, WS7 2BX

    Please don't write to them yet. They will lie, obfuscate or divert and they will not give you the answers you asked for . The other danger is that by writing you may reveal who was the driver eg "1 did not see the signs" as opposed to "the driver did not see any signs". [They are writing to you as the keeper and don't know who the driver is -so best to keep it that way].

    It is best to get all the info first then YOU hit them with the reasons for not paying [and there will be more than one].
    They do require planning permission Town and Country [advertisements] Regulations and another if using anpr. It is a criminal offence not to have the permissions so their "contracts" are useless.
    To help us really smash their chances of getting money from you could you please post up their NTK but first remove your name, address . reg no and any other identifiers. Could you also include photos of their notices and the ticket machine info as the two frequently contradict one another thus rendering their contract invalid.


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    Default Re: Cel pcn Lambourne House, Bridge Cross Rd, Burntwood, WS7 2BX

    thy wont need PP for changing from free to paid parking, they will need the PP for their equipment.
    Forgte about the reasdons as to why you were there after the paid time, of no relevance whatsoever and of no interest to anyone either.

    Start off with by showing us the NTK they sent you with your personal details redacted, likewise ref No's and bar codes. thenh if you can we would like to see the signage at the site, a picture of the entrance to the land from the public highway and a picture of the parking meter and any associated blurb for payment. The contract is only agreed when you feed the meter so theoretically those who pay nothing arent bound by the terms as they are trespassing!

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Cel pcn Lambourne House, Bridge Cross Rd, Burntwood, WS7 2BX

    requested.

    There is no signage or notices stating recording or cameras are in operation.

    I think I've checked the right site for planning permission it's the district council not county?

    Oh and it was two hours that was paid for. Duration took longer in restaurant due to being busy

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    Default Re: Cel pcn Lambourne House, Bridge Cross Rd, Burntwood, WS7 2BX

    they dont have to say they are recording anything, again you are barking up the wtrong tree and that diverts your efforts to the wrong place.
    If you think that the restaurant will get this cnacelled then tell them that you would like them to otherwise there is no reason to even mentionit at all, as it isnt relevant, the contract is between the person who fed the meter and CEL, no-one else gets to have a say. please get yopur head round this, it is not about eating or parking, it is about contracts so that is where they win or lose.


    so lets look at what you have. the PCN isnt POFA compliant so no keeper liability. they have failed to mention almost everything they need to to create a keeper liability. CEL dont care, they are genuine crooks but this means that they are on to a loser if they decide to try and get tough with you as they dont actually know who was driving and they cant just assume it was you. That is good enough reason to say nothing about why your vehicle was where it was.


    the Sign saying pay at machine isnt a contract, it is at best an "invitation to treat" but as it still fails certain requirements ot allow the parking to to demand anything then it is actually a nothing sign so a waste of paint fro them.


    the sign offering the parking contract belongs to a different company so not clear who the contract is with. as neither company have put their details on their sigange then you dont have anything to consider as an offer from any entity. You can also claim that this is confusing so again not a n offer of precise terms. Look up Star Park at companies house and you will see that they are not associated with CEL according to their registration. The reality si that a dishonest person runs both of the companies without listing his interests anywhere and tell lies to courts when asked about this. They dont actually show up at court when they do sue people because they would probably get banged up for contempt



    the parking machine says nothing useful and as that is where the contract is made the if you pay. So, you pay and there are no further conditions so you cant actually breach them.


    so. dont bother responding to then, let them waste some money chasing you, it follows a very constant pattern and we will advise you if you need to write to them at all


    You could write to the DVLA and ask who obtained your keeper details and when you know you make a complaint about then having no reason to do soa nd thus breaching their KADOE contract. As they have clearly been passing on the information or collecting it on behalf of someone else this woudl warrant a more serious complaint to the ICOicon regarding the DVLA being asleep on the job but get the access data first.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Cel pcn Lambourne House, Bridge Cross Rd, Burntwood, WS7 2BX

    thanks



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