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    • The Notice to Hirer does not comply with the protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule  4 . This is before I ask if Europarks have sent you a copy of the PCN they sent to Arval along with a copy of the hire agreement et. if they haven't done that either you are totally in the clear and have nothing to worry about and nothing to pay. The PCN they have sent you is supposed to be paid by you according to the Act within 21 days. The chucklebuts have stated 28 days which is the time that motorists have to pay. Such a basic and simple thing . The Act came out in 2012 and still they cannot get it right which is very good news for you. Sadly there is no point in telling them- they won't accept it because they lose their chance to make any money out of you. they are hoping that by writing to you demanding money plus sending in their  unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors that you might be so frightened as to pay them money so that you can sleep at night. Don't be surprised if some of their letters are done in coloured crayons-that's the sort of  level of people you will be dealing with. Makes great bedding for the rabbits though. Euro tend not to be that litigious but while you can safely ignore the debt collectors just keep an eye out for a possible Letter of Claim. They are pretty rare but musn't be ignored. Let us know so that you can send a suitably snotty letter to them showing that you are not afraid of them and are happy to go to Court as you like winning.  
    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
    • Here are 7 of our top tips to help you connect with young people who have left school or otherwise disengaged.View the full article
    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Monika the first four pages of the Private parking section have at least 12 of our members who have also been caught out on this scam site. That's around one quarter of all our current complaints. Usually we might expect two current complaints for the same park within 4 pages.  So you are in good company and have done well in appealing to McDonalds in an effort to resolve the matter without having  paid such a bunch of rogues. Most people blindly pay up. Met . Starbucks and McDonalds  are well aware of the situation and seem unwilling to make it easier for motorists to avoid getting caught. For instance, instead of photographing you, if they were honest and wanted you  to continue using their services again, they would have said "Excuse me but if you are going to go to Mc donalds from here, it will cost you £100." But no they kett quiet and are now pursuing you for probably a lot more than £100 now. They also know thst  they cannot charge anything over the amount stated on the car park signs. Their claims for £160 or £170 are unlawful yet so many pay that to avoid going to Court. When the truth is that Met are unlikely to take them to Court since they know they will lose. The PCNs are issued on airport land which is covered by Byelaws so only the driver can be pursued, not the keeper. But they keep writing to you as they do not know who was driving unless you gave it away when you appealed. Even if they know you were driving they should still lose in Court for several reasons. The reason we ask you to fill out our questionnaire is to help you if MET do decide to take you to Court in the end. Each member who visited the park may well have different experiences while there which can help when filling out a Witness statement [we will help you with that if it comes to it.] if you have thrown away the original PCN  and other paperwork you obviously haven't got a jerbil or a guinea pig as their paper makes great litter boxes for them.🙂 You can send an SAR to them to get all the information Met have on you to date. Though if you have been to several sites already, you may have done that by now. In the meantime, you will be being bombarded by illiterate debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors all threatening you with ever increasing amounts as well as being hung drawn and quartered. Their letters can all be safely ignored. On the odd chance that you may get a Letter of Claim from them just come back to us and we will get you to send a snotty letter back to them so that they know you are not happy, don't care a fig for their threats and will see them off in Court if they finally have the guts to carry on. If you do have the original PCN could you please post it up, carefully removing your name. address and car registration number but including dates and times. If not just click on the SAR to take you to the form to send to Met.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
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Liverpool Airport 'Stopping' Charge


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Hi all

- as per thread title, either my better half (car owner) or I stopped at LJA whilst dropping someone off.

 

Didn't stop on a road edge, instead turned into a side road/parking area, spun around, and let them out.

 

Reason for this - never been to LJA before and didn't have a clue what was going on parking wise!

 

Looking around I think this is what I'm supposed to add in here

 

1 Date of the infringement 26/4/18

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 1/5/18

3 Date received 8/5/18

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] Doesn't appear to?

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal]

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up No

 

7 Who is the parking company? VCS

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Liverpool John Lennon Airport

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS

 

I've added a copy of the letter.

 

Suffice to say it was utterly unclear that there was a contract being entered into, and that dropping someone off, whilst lost in a confusing car park, would somehow result in a harge

 

Also suffice to say no money is being sent their way!

 

What is best course of action?

 

Thanks in advance for any help

LJM p1.jpg

LJM p2.jpg

Edited by dx100uk
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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

The short answer is that nobody will suggest that you pay this. Someone will give you the long answer later. Have a read around this forum and you'll see lots of threads about JLA and the no stopping problem.

 

Would it be possible to resave and upload your docs as pdf files please? It makes it easier for us to zoom.

 

Best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hey HB - thanks for the quick reply!

 

Yes have read around a bit, but got lost among the different stages/problems people are having. Also the 'recentness' of cases - can't find anyone recently saying its all gone away!

 

I've saved as PDF, attached here. Will edit original post too if I can

LJM.pdf

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there are several things to consider here,

 

firstly it is covered by its own byelaws and so not " relevant land" under the POFA and that menas VCS are stuffed

 

. Secondly no stopping isnt a genuine offer of a contract to park, it is prohibitive so no contract. You cant agree to break the law as a form of creating a contract!

 

They know this and lose court claims where these points are used but until someone prosecutes them for fraud they will continue to rip people off where they can.

 

Basically the claim has no legal legs but expect them to behave in a way that is designed to harass and coerce you into paying.

 

I hope you are strong enough to resist all of this otherwise just pay up and save yourself the bother.

 

We recommend that you do fight it as because the more people take this on the less the return for their effort and eventually they might actually start considering the job they were employed to do.

 

So advice- do nothing at present.

 

In your case they are claiming keeper liability under the POFA but as already said, that doesnt apply so another lie

Edited by honeybee13
Paras
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Thanks ericsbrother.

 

So literally just hold my breath for now?

 

Not even send a "I'm not gong to pay this for x,y,z reasons"?

 

As for resisting harassment I've kept Parking Eye at bay over a typo on a ticket I bought, so I'm fairly stoic, lol!

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Hi and welcome to CAG

 

I agree wholeheartedly with ericsbrother here. The most that could be claimed is trespass as the signs are prohibitive in nature. It's just as easy to hop over a fence and cross private land without permission and get charged for trespass.

 

VCS are members of the IPC who rarely support the driver or keeper in any appeal to them so it is just not worth spending time appealing.

 

What has happened in the past is that VCS, via their pet lawyers (Gladstones, BW Legal) issue court papers in a last chance of them getting a pay day.

 

This does scare some people into paying, thinking that they will lose at court. In reality and has been mentioned in various cases I have come across, VCS will still chase right up to a day or so before court then abandon it, probably because they know that they won't win at court.

 

It's purely a numbers game to VCS. Resist and with help from the experts, you should do well.

Edited by dx100uk
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They are supposed to use the pre action protocols of civil procedure and send you a letter before action stating what they are claiming and why.

 

As they also add amounts to the claim that arent allowable they get this wrong as well BUT you should respond to this last letter (before court action) firmly stating that there is no contract for the reasons cited and therefore they have no basis for a claim and thus no cause for action.

 

This essentially point out that they are being unreasonable by continuing to a court claim and will get you a full costs recovery order if you ask for one. as this can include research time you can stick it to them quite hard.

 

Howevr, what you should hope to achieve at that point is to show that you are no mug and they will then hopefully just go quiet and slink off back under their stone.

Winning at court is only second best to not having to go there.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras
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unfortunately it is set at £19.50ph and you get 5 hours allowed for this type of action.

 

Self employed people get punished by the system as it is assumed that you can manage your time to avoid losing money when the reality is you are more likely to suffer a financial loss.

 

Still having to pay £190 plus travel hurts them more than just paying their rentamouth £50 for turning up so all in all a loss by the parking co sets them back a fair bit, what with sols costs and hiring a DCA to send out letters

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  • 1 month later...

A DCA is not a BAILIFF

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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the parking worlds favourite mouthpiece.

 

Yes, ignore them, you will get a couple more yet though, the last one will beg you to pay up before they recommend that their paymasters get nasty.

If you dont then they wont earn a dishonest crust

Edited by dx100uk
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  • 2 months later...

Hey Eric - sorry bud, thought I replied to this??

 

Yes have had first nastyish one through the other week, now they've stepped up to a "Notice of intention to commence legal proceedings" - though still offering me 'half price', lol!

 

Still ignore? Still doesn't appear to be a proper LBA, just a threat of one?

 

]

Notice of intent.pdf

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Definitely ignore that one. Zenith (DR+ in disguise) cannot take any action and those big bold words are intended to worry you. Either Gladstones or BG Legal are the ones that usually take on these cases so don't ignore them when they (if) they arrive

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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VCS would try to invoice a pushbike or one of those 15 mph pedal assisted scooters if they could trace the rider if they stopped to read the signs. they are that greedy and stupid.

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Definitely ignore that one. Zenith (DR+ in disguise) cannot take any action and those big bold words are intended to worry you. Either Gladstones or BG Legal are the ones that usually take on these cases so don't ignore them when they (if) they arrive

 

Great, thanks, thought as much!

 

VCS would try to invoice a pushbike or one of those 15 mph pedal assisted scooters if they could trace the rider if they stopped to read the signs. they are that greedy and stupid.

 

lmao!!!

 

Cheers guys!

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