Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
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    Default Struggling to get a refund from EnviroTherm Group

    Hi,

    I'm new to this forum and looking to get some advice on a dispute my parents are having. They paid (by cheque) to have new Soffits and Fascia’s fitted by a company called EnviroTherm based in Ilkeston, Derbyshire.

    https://www.envirothermgroup.com/

    My parents received a phone call out of the blue from a salesman who had provided a quote for the work 2/3 years ago saying he had moved company (to EnviroTherm) and asking to visit them to provide a new quote as he felt his new company would be cheaper. His new company (EnviroTherm) were more expensive until he phoned his manager and knocked around £1,000 off the price bringing the total price down to £2,375. I know this is a sales tactic but unfortunately they fell for it.

    My parents paid a 50% deposit which was £1,187.50. The deposit was only refundable within 14 days but EnviroTherm contacted my parents after 14 days had passed demanding an extra £1,500 for scaffolding. My parents stated that they would not pay the extra money and if the work couldn't be carried out for the agreed price they wanted their money back. EnviroTherm initially argued that their request was after the 14 days but when my parents argued the fact that the agreed price had been changed after the 14 days EnviroTherm agreed to refund their deposit.

    The process of getting EnviroTherm to agree to refund the deposit took many phone calls to speak to the manager who was always in a meeting or out of the office. One day my mum was even advised in the morning that he was in a meeting and later that day that he wasn't in work that day. Eventually, after many phone calls and many false claims to have posted a cheque EnviroTherm did send a cheque to my parents last Wednesday (25th April) which they received the next day and paid into the bank on Friday. Today my parents have been advised that the cheque has been cancelled by the company.

    The company have answered my mum's phone call today and claimed they are looking into the situation. They asked for her bank details but she didn't give these as she doesn't trust the company and instead demanded a new cheque. She's currently waiting to hear back.

    We're not hopeful of getting this resolved as my research into the company has highlighted that it is owned by a Jason David Rowan or Lord Jason David Rowan who was the owner of EnergySave who featured on Rogue Traders for their pressurised selling similar to that used on my parents but also much worse as well as their racism.

    I'm looking for advice on what legal step to take? I've read about a letter before action, is that the next step to take? I feel that they need to put something in writing the company as most of her communication has been over the phone.


    Any help or advice would be gratefully received!

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    Default Re: Struggling to get a refund from EnviroTherm Group

    You say that this happened 2/3 years ago. Do you mean two thirds of a year or do you mean two or three years ago? I'm trying to get hold of the timescale here. You had originally been contacted by a salesman with whom you had had a previous contact and he informed you that he had now changed companies in order to provide a new quote from his new company. Is this correct?

    Anyway, the eventual upshot is that you paid a deposit which initially EnviroTherm refused to refund but eventually they agreed and they sent a cheque which has now bounced because it was countermanded.

    the good newsicon here is that you have a bounced cheque. You can bring a small claimicon on this and you will win automatically.

    In view of the fact that they have committed such a blatant act as simply cancelling the cheque, I would be extremely worried about them. On that basis I think that I might feel justified in dispensing with the usual 14 day protocol and I would go straight ahead and issue the claim.

    If they complained that protocol had been followed, the worst that could happen would be that you might find that the judge would order that you would be unable to recover your claim fee. I can't imagine that they would be much else.

    Do you know anything about this company and where they are? Do they have any assets? The one thing of concern is that you might get your judgement and then find that there is nothing to execute against. Of course they could pull the plug on the entire company – but this is why you need to get in quick and get your judgement. Because the judgement some would be more than £600, I would then seek an immediate transfer up of the county courticon judgement to the High Court for enforcement by HCEO. You can easily do this online. It will cost you about £60 which you would get back assuming that the enforcement was successful. The cost of the enforcement could be as much as £2000 – but you need to make sure that the HCEO which acts for you undertakes to absorb those costs in the event that the enforcement is unsuccessful.

    If you wanted, you could send a letter before claim – but that would take 14 days and if this company is in trouble then it could give them enough time to finish whatever was necessary to dissolve the company.


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    Default Re: Struggling to get a refund from EnviroTherm Group

    If you are going to sue them then I think you need to get in there quickly. Do immediately – meaning this afternoon register on the moneyclaimicon website and make your claim. Be prepared to lose your claim fee because you might find that executing the judgement becomes very difficult.


    Assuming that you are prepared to risk your claim fee, if you register on the moneyclaimicon website then you will simply need to put:

    The claimant paid a deposit value £XXX to the defendant company for certain building works.
    The defendant failed to carry out the work and eventually undertook to repay the deposit in the form of a cheque number XXXX dated XXX date
    the cheque was dishonoured by the defendant and it was returned by the defendants back to the claimant marked "blah blah blah".

    The claimant claims £XXX plus interest
    I would set about doing this now – as long as you are prepared to risk the claim fee. As I said, you should get judgement automatically if they challenge it. I can imagine that theironly reason for challenging it is to draw out the process to give themselves extra time if they wanted to dissolve the company


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    Default

    Thanks for your speedy response!

    Sorry for any confusion. A quote was provided 2 or 3 years ago but they were contacted a number of months ago by the same sales man representing his new company, EnviroTherm.

    Your reply is extremely helpful. I'm not sure about assets, EnviroTherm still looks to be trading but I do have concerns about them 'folding' this company. To clarify, you are sure my parents would win the small claimsicon court case and win the full fee? The only potential cost could be submitting the claim with the smalls claims court depending on them arguing we haven't done the full 14 day process.

    EnviroTherm has claimed to be looking into this and could claim to issue another cheque but I'm concerned this is just a delaying tactic. What would happen if they did send a new cheque while the case was with the small claimsicon court? Would we just close the case?


    Thanks again!

    Did you look up EnviroTherm Group currently based in Ilkeston? They look to have been formed in October 2017.

    https://companycheck.co.uk/company/1...ies-house-data

    When you search directorships for Jason David Rowan or Lord Jason David Rowan he looks to have had a numerous directorships either current or expired.


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    Default Re: Struggling to get a refund from EnviroTherm Group

    Yes, I'm sure that if you issue the claim on a cheque then you will win automatically including your court fee. As I have said, the problem will be executing the judgement.

    They are most unlikely to send you a second cheque but if they do, you continue on the basis of the bounced cheque. Sending you a second cheque will not prejudice the first action in any way.

    Do you happen to know the identity of the salesman and his original company? I wonder if it was the same company but now dissolved. Of course I could simply be being over cynical and I'm being unfair

    I haven't checked up any other companies and I have been checking closely to have a look at the identity of the personnel involved. I'll leave that to you. However, it wouldn't surprise me to find that the same name tends to crop up. Whether those names are the same names as the ones involved with the company you are dealing with– remains to be seen.

    I would start looking around the Internet for reviews of the work that this company has done.

    You are right that the company which you have been dealing with is a very new company and so far there are no accounts filed. However, I think it is worth going back to the history of the directors of this company and also companies with similar names. It is not unknown for new companies to spring up using the same personnel but they don't really want to change the name because they want to carry on using the reputation and goodwill of the previous company which was dissolved


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    Default Re: Struggling to get a refund from EnviroTherm Group

    Thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions.

    The current director is listed as Lord Jason David Rowan, do you know if we are ok not to use the title Lord when filing a claim? When you click on Lord Jason David Rowan on https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...25630/officers he then comes up as just Jason David Rowan. I'm hoping the title isn't essential?


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    Default Re: Struggling to get a refund from EnviroTherm Group

    You don't need to worry about a title – but if you are sueing a limited company then why do you even need to use his name?

    Incidentally, there is some very disturbing stuff on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/BOBBYBOY121...42967433012407


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    Default Re: Struggling to get a refund from EnviroTherm Group

    As I said, there is a risk associated with not following protocol – but if you look at what is being said around the Internet and also the TV programme, then I think you have a good basis for saying that your decision to bring an immediate action was justified. At the end of the day, you do risk the claim fee


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Struggling to get a refund from EnviroTherm Group

    Quote Originally Posted by BankFodder View Post
    You don't need to worry about a title – but if you are sueing a limited company then why do you even need to use his name?
    I have registered on the Money Claim site and it seemed to indicate you had to file again an individual. However, your reply suggests you just file against the company?


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    Default Re: Struggling to get a refund from EnviroTherm Group

    Well who was the contract with? And more importantly what was the name on the bounced cheque?


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    Default Re: Struggling to get a refund from EnviroTherm Group

    You can use MCOL to start a claim against a company. There should be a button or something to click between 'individual' and 'organisation' in the Defendant's Details page.


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    Default Re: Struggling to get a refund from EnviroTherm Group

    The contract was with EnviroTherm, the cheque is for and on behalf of Envirotherm Group Limited and I've found the organisation button. Thanks.


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    Default Re: Struggling to get a refund from EnviroTherm Group

    Good luck.

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/cu.../35221.article - a bit of light reading for you on dishonoured cheque proceedings in case they try to defend the claim.


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    Default Re: Struggling to get a refund from EnviroTherm Group

    I am also struggling to get my deposit back from Envirotherm and I have found another person online who is too. I am currently taking them to the small claimsicon court. Let me know if you want to join forces.


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    Default Re: Struggling to get a refund from EnviroTherm Group

    Thread moved to the appropriate forum..please continue to post here to your thread.

    Regards

    Andy



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