Hello Agaain

In November 2017 I bought a commercial freezer online from a so called reputable comapny. The freezer was faulty and they made 4 enginer callouts to repair the freezer eventually giving up and sending me a replacment of the same make and model which suited me fine as long as i have a working freezer. Ever time the tempature goes up i loose stock and end up going through the whole hassle of calling the company up and complaining. I have proof of all the call outs and that the item was replaced.

My problem is it has only been 5 days since the replacement and i already have had the enginer round becouse the moment the freezer arrived we noticed the temperature setting was faulty and now on the 5th day the actually freezer is not working properly as it has gone up to -7* this should be between -18 and -22 as the manual and description states.

i am about to contact the company but this time demand a refund rather then repair or refund as i believer the make or model is faulty and we have tried those options before.

im preparing a letter/email to send mentioning "consumer rights act 2015"

i just wanted to clarify as this is a business to business transaction would it still be covered by the act. i been told it is covered but ive also been told otherwise.

can anyone give me any advice on how i should go about this or any laws that would help me in this situation.

just to mention, Any mention of a refund is absolutly refused going from previous conversation and they act as if i dont even have a choice in the matter.

Please can you tell us who the supplier is – and also you say that you are "losing stock". Are you a business or are you a private individual?

They state it is a business therefore probably not covered by the CRA 2015.

CRA doesn’t apply for business to business.

However, if the freezer (even after being replaced!) can’t keep your stock from having to be replaced as it isn’t keeping it at a suitably low temperature: it isn’t fit for purpose and they have breached the contract.

Do the T’s and C’s state anything about repairs / refunds?.

They state it is a business therefore probably not covered by the CRA 2015.

Yes, I should have read it more carefully. My bad.

Anyway, it is all quite straightforward and if the OP decides to engage with this thread then we can take it further.

hi guys

appoligise for late response was working all morning still actually at work just on a break. yes it is business to business the supplier is shop-equip .com im going to go through the t's and c's now ill copy and paste the part about refunds.

the T's and C's on the site only has a warrenty section which doesnt actually say anything on refunds or repair just says what they will be responsible for.

There are a number of warranty options available on commercial equipment, so please ensure that the warranty option on the product you have chosen meets with your requirements. As part of our improved commitment to our customers we offer additional warranty on a range of products at very competative prices.

Unless otherwise stated all goods manufactured by Shop-Equip Ltd carry twelve months warranty on faulty parts or workmanship. Shop-Equip Ltd makes no warranty whatsoever in respect of items which it does not manufacture. Shop-Equip Ltd shall however assist the buyer to obtain the benefit of any applicable warranties given by a third party manufacturer or distributor. Customers must use the warranty arrangements specifically provided as stated by Shop-Equip Ltd staff or Shop-Equip Ltd publicity and marketing media.

Shop-Equip Ltd cannot be held responsible in the event of a manufacturer or distributor being unable to provide warranty, including labour and/or parts where the manufacturer or distributor has discontinued a product for any reason and parts are no longer available, or suffered bankruptcy, or is under financial administration by a Receiver.

Where an on-site visit is deemed necessary under the terms of the manufacturers/distributors warranty the cost of the visit will be bourne by the manufacturer/distributor. Whilst every effort is made to determine the cause of a fault before sending an engineer on-site it is not always possible to make a correct diagnosis.In the event that the fault is due to customer neglect, failure to operate or maintain the equipment according to manufacturer's instructions, accidental damage or abuse then

In the event that the fault is due to customer neglect, failure to operate or maintain the equipment according to manufacturer's instructions, accidental damage or abuse then Shop-Equip Ltd cannot be held responsible for the cost of the engineers visit. Any such cost will be charged to the customer. Wherever possible a copy of the engineer's report will be provided on request.

Is the the freezer an upright or chest, solid or glass door, what size and where do you keep it? You've told us who the supplier is but what about make & model?

I'm not sure that the questions above are relevant to the problem here.

Please can you tell us a bit more about your business – are you a limited company or a sole trader/partnership?

Is the freezer manufactured by Shop-Equip Ltd or are they simply retailers?

The Consumer Rights Act would not apply to you here because we are dealing with business to business contracts. However, the provisions of the Supply of Goods and Services Act - SGSA - are what you should be looking at – as well as the common law contract.

I'm not sure that the questions above are relevant to the problem here.

 

Please can you tell us a bit more about your business – are you a limited company or a sole trader/partnership?

 

Is the freezer manufactured by Shop-Equip Ltd or are they simply retailers?

 

The Consumer Rights Act would not apply to you here because we are dealing with business to business contracts. However, the provisions of the Supply of Goods and Services Act - SGSA - are what you should be looking at – as well as the common law contract.

The business is a Limited Company and the freezer is a "PRODIS GRN-C2F 2 Door Freezer" so its not manufactured by shop equip its a PRODIS.

i Dont know if it makes a difference however i did purchase the item on my personal Credit Card

Is the the freezer an upright or chest, solid or glass door, what size and where do you keep it? You've told us who the supplier is but what about make & model?

Its a 2 door Freezer Prodis GRN-C2f its and under counter freezer looks like a chest freezer only doesnt have a lide it has to doors its keeps in a clear open space so theres no obstructioin to the vents.

Thank you.

The credit card payment would have been helpful if you had been buying the freezer for a sole trader/partnership business because you could have then invoked the consumer credit act.

However, because you contracted as a limited company, you don't have this solution available to you.

You will simply have to rely on the provisions of the Supply of goods and services act – SGSA

the T's and C's on the site only has a warrenty section which doesnt actually say anything on refunds or repair just says what they will be responsible for.

and you quote their T's and C's.

There are a number of warranty options available on commercial equipment, so please ensure that the warranty option on the product you have chosen meets with your requirements. As part of our improved commitment to our customers we offer additional warranty on a range of products at very competative prices.

Unless otherwise stated all goods manufactured by Shop-Equip Ltd carry twelve months warranty on faulty parts or workmanship. Shop-Equip Ltd makes no warranty whatsoever in respect of items which it does not manufacture. Shop-Equip Ltd shall however assist the buyer to obtain the benefit of any applicable warranties given by a third party manufacturer or distributor. Customers must use the warranty arrangements specifically provided as stated by Shop-Equip Ltd staff or Shop-Equip Ltd publicity and marketing media.

Shop-Equip Ltd cannot be held responsible in the event of a manufacturer or distributor being unable to provide warranty, including labour and/or parts where the manufacturer or distributor has discontinued a product for any reason and parts are no longer available, or suffered bankruptcy, or is under financial administration by a Receiver.

Where an on-site visit is deemed necessary under the terms of the manufacturers/distributors warranty the cost of the visit will be bourne by the manufacturer/distributor. Whilst every effort is made to determine the cause of a fault before sending an engineer on-site it is not always possible to make a correct diagnosis.In the event that the fault is due to customer neglect, failure to operate or maintain the equipment according to manufacturer's instructions, accidental damage or abuse then

In the event that the fault is due to customer neglect, failure to operate or maintain the equipment according to manufacturer's instructions, accidental damage or abuse then Shop-Equip Ltd cannot be held responsible for the cost of the engineers visit. Any such cost will be charged to the customer. Wherever possible a copy of the engineer's report will be provided on request.

2 key points.

1) You've identified that their T's and C's refer to warranty, and that they say they only provide a warranty for products they manufacture. Some might say this is a piece of clever legalese, as they may try and deflect any queries to the manufacturer, but it should be noted that any warranty is in addition to the purchaser's statutory rights, and those statutory rights can't be excluded by T's and C's......

2) It has been correctly noted that the CRA 2015 doesn't apply here. The CRA 2015 doesn't repeal the previous legislation (including the Sale of Goods Act 1979, as amended by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 and the Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994) in total, but sets out where it replaces it, strengthening protection for consumers. So, whilst the CRA doesn't apply in this scenario, the previous legislation including SGA (as amended) still holds.

The explanatory notes to the CRA 2015 make this clear:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/notes/division/2/5

So, you write to them, noting that you aren't claiming under a manufacturer's warranty, but under your statutory rights instead, so, what was SGA 1979, [namely what was S. 14 (2B) of that Act], but although that was amended by S. 1 (1) of the SSGA1994, the relevant provision remains the same: that by STATUTE, the goods must be of "satisfactory quality", and that includes "fitness for purpose" and "durability".

Both of these are to "the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.", thouigh I wouldn't point this out to them, though they still might try to use this as a 'get-out'....

Was the item described as "might not be durable" or similar, or offered at a substantial mark-down from the price expected for a reliable commercial freezer of otherwise similar specification, that might offer them that 'wiggle-room'?

Don't let them keep saying "we don't offer a warranty" as a 'get-out', keep coming back to the fact that you aren't claiming on a manufacturer's warranty, you are claiming for breach of contract for a product not of fitness for purpose and adequate durability, that the responsibility for this lies with the retailer, and that any T's and C's can't disclaim this statutory right.

I wouldn't allow yourself to get jerked around too long on this. You need to cut to the chase pretty quickly because it doesn't sound as if they're being very cooperative. However, if you do decide to issue a County Court claim, do understand that because you are suing a business then the case will be heard in their local court. Where is that?

thank you guys thats Fantastic just what i needed

ive done up a email/letter ill copy and paste here. not to sure if its ok let me know if you think its to long winded or need adjusting.

Dear Shop Equip,

 

Complaint about faulty goods

 

I bought Freezer Prodis GRN-C2F from you on 29/11/2017. I paid £1017.60 (848+VAT).

 

I now find the goods have the following fault:

 

as you are aware i purchased this product on 29th November 2017. Since that date i made 4 Engineer call outs as the freezer temperature kept rising and ruining stock. The engineer made 4 attempts to repair freezer and failed.

The freezer was recently replaced on 24th April 2017(5 days ago) and I already had to call an engineer straight away because the temperature setting where faulty. An engineer come and fixed that.

Now the brand new replacement freezer is faulty again has risen to -7.

The temperature for frozen should be -18 to -22.

 

I believe we have exhausted options of repair and replacement. There is clearly an inherent manufactured fault with this make/model.

 

I would like a full refund for this product so I can purchase another make/model.

 

please note i am not claiming this refund under Any warranty I am claiming this refund under my statutory rights:-

 

S. 1 (1) Sale and Supply of Goods Act “The goods must be of "satisfactory quality", and that includes "fitness for purpose" and "durability"..

 

The responsibility lies with yourselves (shop-equip) and not the manufacturer as you in breach of contract for a product not of fitness for purpose and adequate durability,

 

I have attached photo of temperature take on 29/04/2018 this is of the replacement freezer also, my original invoice that has the item on it. in support of my claim. I believe you have access to the engineer reports anyway yourselves.

 

Yours sincerely

put simply they didnt supply what thy promised, a working freezer. Unless their contract with you says we only supply broken items of no commercial value then they have obligations to perform to their side of the contract, ie you bought a freezer to do a job and the one they supplied doesnt. Simple

Yes. That letter is fine except it lacks any kind of deadline. What you're doing here is sending them a complaint that you have rather left things hanging in the air as to the response you want and the amount of time you're prepared to give them for it.

If you want to take control of this complaint then you need to start establishing your own deadlines for action. If you want this letter to be their last chance morning then you ought to include a statement at the bottom it that if you don't hear from them is with a satisfactory response within 14 days that you will start a County Court claim and without any further notice.

If you are prepared to give them another chance then simply tell them that you want a response within, say, seven days – or else you will consider taking further action. Then when they failed to respond, you should send them the 14 day letter before claim.

If you decide that you are prepared to take legal action, then make that decision before you start making threats. Don't bluff. Also, you should understand in advance all the steps. Don't make the threat, find that they've called your bluff – and then you really have no idea as to what the next step is. You are much better off finding out how to go about it because it will be much better for your confidence. There's lots of stuff on this forum about bringing an action in the Small Claims Court. It's pretty straightforward.

So, have a plan. Give a deadline in this present letter – decide whether you will give them a further chance and then bring a County Court action or if this is their last chance and you will bring a County Court action – but whatever, make sure you have a plan, know all the steps and carry out your threats.

Yes. That letter is fine except it lacks any kind of deadline. What you're doing here is sending them a complaint that you have rather left things hanging in the air as to the response you want and the amount of time you're prepared to give them for it.

 

If you want to take control of this complaint then you need to start establishing your own deadlines for action. If you want this letter to be their last chance morning then you ought to include a statement at the bottom it that if you don't hear from them is with a satisfactory response within 14 days that you will start a County Court claim and without any further notice.

 

If you are prepared to give them another chance then simply tell them that you want a response within, say, seven days – or else you will consider taking further action. Then when they failed to respond, you should send them the 14 day letter before claim.

 

If you decide that you are prepared to take legal action, then make that decision before you start making threats. Don't bluff. Also, you should understand in advance all the steps. Don't make the threat, find that they've called your bluff – and then you really have no idea as to what the next step is. You are much better off finding out how to go about it because it will be much better for your confidence. There's lots of stuff on this forum about bringing an action in the Small Claims Court. It's pretty straightforward.

 

So, have a plan. Give a deadline in this present letter – decide whether you will give them a further chance and then bring a County Court action or if this is their last chance and you will bring a County Court action – but whatever, make sure you have a plan, know all the steps and carry out your threats.

ok definetly for now ill just ask for a reply as you stated. then ill send 14day letter. that will give me time to prepare if i do need to take it to court. i am 100% willing to take this to court.

only problem is during this time my business is down 1 freezer which causes a problem.

Well you are entitled to mitigate your loss – and in fact you have a duty to do so. If you are confident that you are rejecting the freezer then I think that you should say so in your letter – and then make alternative arrangements for your business, which means buying a new freezer.

In which case you should say in your letter

 

I believe we have exhausted options of repair and replacement. There is clearly an inherent manufactured fault with this make/model. This amounts to a fundamental breach by you of the sales contract and which I have given you ample time to remedy. You have failed to remedy the contract and as you must understand I have my business interests to consider.

 

Because of your fundamental breach of the contract and your failure to provide any any reasonable solution despite being given reasonable opportunities to do so, I am now treating the contract as terminated and in order to mitigate my losses I am preparing to purchase a new freezer from another supplier immediately.

 

I require that you collect your property from my premises and to give me a full refund within the next seven days please. If you do not do this then I will have to consider taking legal action

Well you are entitled to mitigate your loss – and in fact you have a duty to do so. If you are confident that you are rejecting the freezer then I think that you should say so in your letter – and then make alternative arrangements for your business, which means buying a new freezer.

 

In which case you should say in your letter

yep done. thanks for your advice guys ill get this actioned. ill keep you updated on results.

ok people

Heres the update. i was credited back full amount wooohooooooo

As suspect they left it right up to the last minute and literally 2 days before the final 14 day deadline i gave them to respond to me or i apply to county court i recieved i phone call from one of the managers and at first he still tried to get me to contribute towards the cost of getting the item back to them.

i replied with a straightfoward "NO"

He also tried telling me that they have tested the previous item and it seems to be in working order so i replied by simply telling them by explaining the 4 engineer visits is proof the freezer wasnt working and unless they refund me full amountim still applying to court in two days then ended the phone call.

I then recieved another call simply telling me i will be recieving a full refund and that i will be recieving a phone call from another company in regards to collection.

All in all good result i just wished these companies didnt exploit people naivety and traded honestly if i hadnt gone further and sought advice i would of been stuck with a useless freezer.

Anyway i wanna say thank you to all you guys your advice was fantastic.

MODO

Well done.

However it's not finished until the money is in and the freezer is gone!!

Let us know.