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    • The Notice to Hirer does not comply with the protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule  4 . This is before I ask if Europarks have sent you a copy of the PCN they sent to Arval along with a copy of the hire agreement et. if they haven't done that either you are totally in the clear and have nothing to worry about and nothing to pay. The PCN they have sent you is supposed to be paid by you according to the Act within 21 days. The chucklebuts have stated 28 days which is the time that motorists have to pay. Such a basic and simple thing . The Act came out in 2012 and still they cannot get it right which is very good news for you. Sadly there is no point in telling them- they won't accept it because they lose their chance to make any money out of you. they are hoping that by writing to you demanding money plus sending in their  unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors that you might be so frightened as to pay them money so that you can sleep at night. Don't be surprised if some of their letters are done in coloured crayons-that's the sort of  level of people you will be dealing with. Makes great bedding for the rabbits though. Euro tend not to be that litigious but while you can safely ignore the debt collectors just keep an eye out for a possible Letter of Claim. They are pretty rare but musn't be ignored. Let us know so that you can send a suitably snotty letter to them showing that you are not afraid of them and are happy to go to Court as you like winning.  
    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
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    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Monika the first four pages of the Private parking section have at least 12 of our members who have also been caught out on this scam site. That's around one quarter of all our current complaints. Usually we might expect two current complaints for the same park within 4 pages.  So you are in good company and have done well in appealing to McDonalds in an effort to resolve the matter without having  paid such a bunch of rogues. Most people blindly pay up. Met . Starbucks and McDonalds  are well aware of the situation and seem unwilling to make it easier for motorists to avoid getting caught. For instance, instead of photographing you, if they were honest and wanted you  to continue using their services again, they would have said "Excuse me but if you are going to go to Mc donalds from here, it will cost you £100." But no they kett quiet and are now pursuing you for probably a lot more than £100 now. They also know thst  they cannot charge anything over the amount stated on the car park signs. Their claims for £160 or £170 are unlawful yet so many pay that to avoid going to Court. When the truth is that Met are unlikely to take them to Court since they know they will lose. The PCNs are issued on airport land which is covered by Byelaws so only the driver can be pursued, not the keeper. But they keep writing to you as they do not know who was driving unless you gave it away when you appealed. Even if they know you were driving they should still lose in Court for several reasons. The reason we ask you to fill out our questionnaire is to help you if MET do decide to take you to Court in the end. Each member who visited the park may well have different experiences while there which can help when filling out a Witness statement [we will help you with that if it comes to it.] if you have thrown away the original PCN  and other paperwork you obviously haven't got a jerbil or a guinea pig as their paper makes great litter boxes for them.🙂 You can send an SAR to them to get all the information Met have on you to date. Though if you have been to several sites already, you may have done that by now. In the meantime, you will be being bombarded by illiterate debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors all threatening you with ever increasing amounts as well as being hung drawn and quartered. Their letters can all be safely ignored. On the odd chance that you may get a Letter of Claim from them just come back to us and we will get you to send a snotty letter back to them so that they know you are not happy, don't care a fig for their threats and will see them off in Court if they finally have the guts to carry on. If you do have the original PCN could you please post it up, carefully removing your name. address and car registration number but including dates and times. If not just click on the SAR to take you to the form to send to Met.
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PE ANPR PCN - lido carpark cliftonville margate


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hi

 

Drove into carpark

didnt leave car just sat in car and admired the view for 10/15 mins.

 

i didnt buy a ticket as i thought I didnt need one as I wasnt leaving the car, only sitting in it.

 

Received a parking charge through the post, Ignored as friend said too....

 

Have just received 2nd one, which i ripped up.

 

I am becoming scared and regretting ignoring the letters.

 

Please, any advice?

Edited by dx100uk
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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi please find below requested information.

due to my stupidity of ignoring first letter i am now beyond the payment date of 20/4/18.

 

I felt i didnt have to pay a ticket as I never left the car, we sat and admired the view for 13 mins,

 

do i have a leg to stand on?

I'm not very well educated and I'm intimadated by the legal process

 

looks like I have to deal with this as I do not want a ccj.

I have mental health issues which causes me to avoid things can i use that?

 

Any help you knowledgable peeps can provide, is very very welcome.

 

1 Date of the infringement 31/03/18 12:33:56

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 5/4/18

 

3 Date received I think it was 8/4/18 I received the 2nd reminder letter 17/4/18

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] I don’t know

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes image of my car entering and leaving

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal] no

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

 

7 Who is the parking company? Parking eye

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] lido carpark margate kent

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure, BPA

please check HERE

 

it says they are a member of the BPA for q8

Edited by dx100uk
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so EXACTLY how long were you in the car park? There is a minimum grace period of 10 minutes and being there less than 15 wil not be considered a parking event in most courts but we really want to knock it on the head before it gets that far

 

Is the place near to you so you canget down there and photograph the sigange and the ticket machine so we can see what the offer of a contact was.

 

using your mental health as a get out wont win a court case, it will lose it as this is about contracts, not parking or anything else.

Edited by honeybee13
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Hi ericsbrother,

on the letter it says; Time in carpark; 0 hours 13 minutes

Yes it is close so I will be able to get photos.

The fact i didnt leave the car, does that have any bearing?

Thank you thank you

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should be ok then.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

It would be worth spending some time reading other threads. The following is just one I knew of. There may be more.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?476286-Parking-Eye-claimform-ANPR-PCN-Lido-car-park-Cliftonville-Kent-BB-on-Display&p=5013350&viewfull=1#post5013350

 

Parking Eye are members of the BPA so any appeal would first go to PE and when it is rejected (and it will) you can then go to POPLA which is a lot fairer that the IAS.

 

I don't think there are many signs there and the pay station is set back as well. I will have to look again on Google Streetview

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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This hasn't got anything to do with whether or not you left the vehicle. But the 13 minutes is absolutely crucial.

 

The BPA say in their T&C's (link below) that any grace period should be a MINIMUM of 10 minutes. Section 13.2. So is 13 minutes unreasonable?

 

I possibly don't agree that your mental health has nothing to do with this, and I'll explain why.

 

 

If you are considered disabled, and it matters not whether or not you have a blue badge. Reasonable adjustments must be made to allow you extra time. Whether this is time to park and do some shopping, or time to park, read, understand and decide on whether or not you agree with the signage at the car park.

 

This is covered in the BPA Terms & Conditions for their Members of which ParkingLie is one, at section 16 of this document.

 

Whilst section 16 is written with the physically disabled in mind, under the equalities act, they must also make reasonable adjustments for anyone else that is considered disabled in any way, and as I've said, that would include extra time to read and understand the signage.

 

So where a 10 minute 'grace period' may be considered reasonable for most motorists. 13 minutes may not be unreasonable for others.

 

 

It's just another possible prong of attack for an appeal to ParkingLie (in the first instance).

 

 

 

Do you have any of the paperwork from ParkingLie that you can upload after removing any personal details, reference numbers and vehicle registration?

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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Can you piece it together on a scanner bed and scanit

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I have looked on streetview but the Lido signs are from 2014 when a different company ran the car park.

 

As well as DF's excellent response, it may be worth checking with the local council to see if PE have actually applied for planning permission for the signs.

 

Whatever you do with PE, never mention the drivers name, only state 'The Driver'

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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so, I need to write to them appealing this charge?

 

Yes, but not yet. ParkingLie (as with most others) give you 28 days to appeal, so there's time enough to wait and gather some more opinions on what that appeal should contain.

 

Don't rush in to it blind :thumb:

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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as already said no hurry to respond to them so get some pictures of the entrance to the car park, any signage at said entrance and any different signs that may be scattered about.

 

Also get clear pictures of the terms and conditions on the payment machinery as this is when a contract is actually agreed, when you put the money in you have accepted what is offered. Up to that point there is always room for argument.

 

DF's observations about the Equalities Act are valid, my point was that telling a court about your mental condition or saying you are not very well educated may get you sympathy

 

the law applies equally to all so you need to try and get a positive outcome before that stage because if that is your only argument then you wont win.

 

We will try and find flaws with the areas that are dealt with in private parking and that will include

how easy it is to spot their signs,

how easy they are to understand,

are they a valid offer and

whether the claim is for a breach of contract or for monies due as a contractual sum.

 

the first 3 bits mean we need to see the signs and associated terms on the machine but they must also have the right to offer you a contract and that means whether they have the correct permissions or not.

 

parking co's are known to lie about such things

Edited by dx100uk
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Sorry for delay I am working this weekend.

I have taken pictures but having trouble uploading, I will spend more time when i finish work this evening.

Thanks again for everyones time, I dont feel so scared.

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read upload

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Was the first image from around the pay machine? On the streetview (from the road) the images are updated to show the pay machine in place but I couldn't see any signs nearby. The terms and conditions in tiny writing is virtually unreadable and I cannot see a UK address at all. A PO box number is insufficient.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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You need to start thinking about the appeal as time is running out. This can be as simple as stating that 'the driver' has a minimum of 10 minutes to read, understand and then decide to stay or go as stated in the BPA code of practice. Three extra minutes would not be a strict breach as the driver needed to find a space, park and then go to the machine and read the instructions bearing in mind that the signs are not that clear and had to spend extra time reading the small print to ensure that you knew what was what.

 

Others will have a better idea then me so hang on a while till the others arrive. I wouldn't mention the mental health issues as yet.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Interesting,

the sign at the entrance is not a contract but an "invitation to treat so you can then accept or reject the contract offered. you only accpet it when you feed the meter, which you didnt so no contract accepted.

 

secondly,

the sign with the tariffs on says that you must park within the lines and dont park on the yellow lines. If you disobey you will be clobbered for £100. Nothing in that that says you must pay to remain there so according to their sign you havent done anything to attract a demand for £100 The small print is immaterial as it doesnt form part of the core contract.

 

The only thing to consider is whetehr the tariff table is construed as to be the same as the "donts" terms.

 

the sign should start off by saying you have to agree to pay or you are in breach and then have the bit about not parking on yellow lines.

 

They are currently separate and as the sign facing the road damages PE chances od a claim they should ahve got this right.

 

So, what to write to them.

I would start off with a damning of their signage being an invitation to treat and the fact that the contract is only formed when money is accepted by the payment machine.

 

As the driver didnt put any money in the contract was never formed so there can be no breach.

 

Secondly as the sigange at the site contains 3 different sets of text it takes more than 10 minutes to go round and read it all and then decide if one wants to be bound by it and having decided it wasnt agreeable, leave.

 

This is covered by the BPA code of Practice which set a MINIMUM grace period and this 10 minutes is that, a minimum not a maximum.

 

thirdly the wording on the sign stating the tariffs contain text so small they are unreadable and laid out in a way that is impossible to be considerd a fair contract under S62 of the Consumer Rights Act and thus no contractual obligation is enforceable.

 

Lastly the wording on the signage is identical to the case of Parking Eye v Cargius and so the amount claimed is designed to deter and is an unenforceable penalty.

 

get this off to them pronto.

they may well huff an puff but i would bet that they wont go further than farmed out threatograms or they risk losing big money.

Edited by dx100uk
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