It would appear on the face of it that it is nowhere near as intrusive as UJM.

Its early days yet but it might just turn out to be a useful tool for jobseekers to find jobs rather than to entrap and sanction them.

Just registered on the new find a job site.

It is not accessible by DWP staff, which is a relief, but it has the potential to be far more damaging.

Every search or any other action you do is time-stamped, every page you visit is logged, every job you view is noted, each and every filter you apply to your search is recorded and shown on a print-out.

Everything has a time next to it, and shows, to the second, when you click the "print page", which is prominently placed on each section of your activity history.

Its very easy for DWP staff to see if you have not done your obligatory 35 hours job search

- they cannot access your account but they can and surely will ask for print-outs.

they can and surely will ask for print-outs.

I remember something in some of the previous documentation stating that it was our choice how we present our job search records. Does that still apply and if so, can we refuse (I mean legitimately, not just at the work coach's discretion) to offer printouts as long as we continue to fill out the little booklets or provide our own written/printed summaries?

It shouldn't be a problem for those doing what they agree to do.

It would only be a problem if you weren't doing any searches.

They have not changed the law and you are correct you can present your evidence in any format of your choosing .

You do not have to sign up to this site if you do not give your consent.

So no need to panic YET lol.

yes I agree that this new find a job service is not as intrusive as universal job match but when looking for jobs to apply for you notice that you see jobs repeated a couple of times,

jobs you have already applied for and jobs that you cannot apply for because you either do not have the experience for the job or you need to drive to get to the location of the job due to location and start and finish times of the job and DWP staff do not have access to it.

Necessity., For sure!., But remember.., All JSA *claimants are 'Legally REQUIrED'., to complete the 'UJM'., Think about it., unless an advisory decree is issued,

There has never been any legislation compelling a claimant to register or use UJM or any other job search site. Some claimants will not have access to the internet, so would not be able to comply.

Whilst the JCP may be able to provide access via terminals in the job centre or direct people to local libraries, there will be some claimants who have court imposed restrictions on using computers (either as part of sentencing or a condition of parole).

Some good points there Mr. P

The trap that claimants need to be wary of is when their Claimant Commitments will necessarily have to be changed to delete any mention of activities relating to UJM.

Work coaches are already being programmed to include references to activities relating to FaJ in new and revised CCs.

I believe they will also use take advantage and use this change as a cover to speed up the transfer of Job seekers still on the old Jobseekers Agreement onto CC.

If they succeed in enticing claimants to sign up to such activities the claimants expose themselves to mandation and sanction by the back door. They were very successful when they used this devious slick trick to bypass the law and entrap UJM users.

Work coaches are already being programmed to include references to activities relating to FaJ in new and revised CCs.

Can you refuse this directly to the work coach? I was under the impression they could add (within reason) anything they liked to the CC and you had to take it up with a decision maker to disagree with any part, or otherwise end your claim by not signing the CC.

The operative word is ‘reasonable’

Anyone who read DWP/ FaJ’s own Acceptable use policy would find it hard to convince anybody that signing up to the site was reasonable.

The DWP itself wants nothing to do with it as far as taking any responsibility for the data you choose to give on it. It refuses to guarantee that your data is protected or who has access to it.

Have a look at the policy document, see what you think:

Acceptable use policy

By using our site you accept these terms

Please read these terms of use and corresponding documents carefully. By using the ‘Find a job’ service you confirm that you accept these terms and that you agree to comply with them. If you do not agree to these terms, you must stop using the site and the online content immediately.

What is in this Policy?

This acceptable use policy sets out the standards DWP expects when you use the site (https://www.findajob.dwp.gov.uk), make contact with other Users on our site, link to our site, or interact with our site in any other way.

This site provides information about job opportunities by providing Users the platform to interact.

Your responsibility

You must keep your account details safe

If you choose, or you are provided with, an account or password or any other piece of information as part of our security procedures, you must treat such information as confidential. You must not disclose it to any third party.

We have the right to disable any account, whether chosen by you or allocated by us, at any time, if in our reasonable opinion you have failed to comply with any of the provisions of these terms of use.

If you know or suspect that anyone other than you knows your user password, you must reset your password promptly.

You must not solely rely on the information on this site

The content on our site is provided for general information only. It is not intended to amount to advice on which you should rely. You may wish to obtain professional or specialist advice before taking, or refraining from, any action on the basis of the content on our site.

Although we make reasonable efforts to update the information on our site, we make no representations, warranties or guarantees, whether express or implied that the content on our site is accurate, complete or up to date.

Prohibited uses

You may use our site only for lawful purposes. You may not use our site:

• in any way that breaches any local, national or international law or regulation

• for the purpose of harming or attempting to cause harm

• to use someone else’s account

• to upload harmful, inaccurate, offensive or illegal content

• to attempt to hack, disrupt or damage to the site

• to use our content commercially without permission

• to upload malware (malicious software, for example computer viruses)

You will not without authority, interfere with, damage or disrupt:

• any part of our site;

• any equipment or network on which our site is stored;

• any software used in the provision of our site; or

• any equipment or network or software owned or used by any third party

Breach of this policy

When we consider that a breach of this acceptable use policy has occurred, we may take such action as we deem appropriate. We may either:

• issue a warning to you

• immediately delete your account (temporary or permanent withdrawal of your right to use our site)

• immediate, temporary or permanent removal of any content uploaded by you to our site

• consider legal action against you

• disclose such information to law enforcement authorities as we reasonably feel is necessary or as required by law

DWP responsibility

We will do our best to make sure this service is available, virus free and that the information we provide is accurate and complete.

We are not responsible for:

• you being unable to access the site, for example if it is unavailable due to maintenance or technical issues. We will report any unavailability to our supplier, Adzuna

• any kind of loss or damage as a result of using the site

• the accuracy of job descriptions and any other user content

• the content of other websites we link to

The DWP does not claim rights, ownership or control over content uploaded on the site by Users. The person or organisation uploading User Content retains the rights in its intellectual property and is solely responsible for protecting the rights of its Intellectual Property.

Which country's laws apply to any disputes?

The terms and conditions are governed by English law. If there’s a dispute, it will be dealt with in courts in England and Wales.

Other policies

The acceptable use policy should be read alongside the ‘Find a job’ privacy policy and the cookie policy.

We may make changes to the terms of this policy

We can update our acceptable use policy at any time. Check this page regularly to find out about updates.

These terms of use were last updated on 13 April 2018.

Think spoke to soon PANIC !!!

From a recent FOI

Issuing a Jobseeker’s direction to mandate claimants to create an

account and upload a CV in Find a job or if more appropriate,

another jobsite

1. For legal reasons, you can’t issue a Jobseeker’s Direction (JSD) to mandate a

claimant to create an account and upload a Curriculum Vitae (CV) in Find a job or

if more appropriate, another jobsite unless a Department for Work and Pensions

(DWP) customer computer is reasonably available to them should they need to

use one, for example, because they don’t want to accept cookies on their device

and therefore need to have access to a device on which cookies have already

been accepted.

Still that is ambiguous Unless means what ? faj or a another site of your own choosing ?

I think I know what is happening here, there has been some changes at my local JCP and this all ties in the latest FOI.

Looks to me they want another bite at the sanctions cherry, look out for having to make a new claimant commitment as well I assume the majority of folks will be invalid in July when UJM closes.

If appropriate is the keyword then what more appropriate is a site that times stamps your every move and displays it prominently for the work coach to see if your on the site 24 hours a day what time dd you click what and so on.

Again how can anyone accept a cookie on others behalf if that person does not consent to having a cookie being set in the first place lol think it DWP lies again

I think you could very well be right.

Any JSAg or CC that include activities involving UJM will be out of date by mid-June.

To be able to continue receiving JSA the law says that the claimant must have an up to date agreement. Agreements or CCs that include UJM activities will be out of date therefore your claim may be cancelled unless you sign up to a new one sharpish.

I think it is also the responsibility of the claimant to report any change of circumstances affecting job seeking activity. Wonder if this might be regarded as a change of circumstances and unless we report it we may be sanctioned?

The trap that claimants need to be wary of is when their Agreements or CCs will necessarily have to be changed to delete any mention of activities relating to UJM.

Work coaches are already being programmed to include references to activities relating to FaJ in new and revised Agreements.

I believe they will also use this change to speed up the transfer of Job seekers still on the old Jobseekers Agreement onto CC.

If they succeed in enticing claimants to sign up to such activities the claimants expose themselves to mandation and sanction by the back door. They were very successful when they used this devious slick trick to bypass the law and entrap UJM users.

Might be a good idea to polish up on Agreement and CC negotiating skills. Most of the reasons we used to deploy to avoid UJM may very well come in handy with FAJ as well.

Agreed it would be wise to brush on up our negotiating skills in regards to the claimant commitment I feel a storm coming.

They can issue a jobseekers direction to sign up with a site as such but it did not have to be ujm as long as you could show proof you had,

all these new claimant commitments no doubt will use pressure and botherabilty to make claimants sign up to faj and that site is far more intrusive than ujm was in regards to what activities it records.

How is it more intrusive, if only the user can see them, as DWP have no access to it?

They will ask you during a work search review to show them find a job on your mobile device, printouts or use the jcp computer to login to faj.

It Time stamps all activities and will be clearly visible.

I am not saying at this moment they will mandate everyone to sign up to faj when they change everyone's claimant commitment, they will try though whatever the outcome is and for the majority they will comply rather than confront them.

Not only that those who have been used to allowing access to work coaches on ujm and show their activities are going to have to cope with the new way.

It is called botherabilty and they are the masters.

Agreed it would be wise to brush on up our negotiating skills in regards to the claimant commitment I feel a storm coming.

Where could I find advice on this? Negotiating was never my strong point.

A few tips hope it helps.

Maybe you rely on Public Transport and your bus service timetables have been altered.

You might have realised applying for X jobs per week is no longer possible, especially so the longer you remain unemployed.

All the local shop windows are now boarded up and you no longer have family and friends……… I think you get the picture.

You would normally discuss your circumstances with your Work Coach and reach a agreement to carry out those steps.

You can request a private room if necessary. And it is much easier to record the conversation in a private room for your personal notes later on.

Just think about what you can realistically and reasonably achieve each week, taking into account the following.

• Any health restrictions
  
• Caring Responsibilities
  
• Access to the Internet and a phone
  
• Your skills and abilities including your IT skills
  
• How long you have been unemployed
  
• The labour market and the availability of suitable jobs
  
• Transport difficulties
  
• Criminal record
  
• Substance abuse Homelessness
  
• Religious days and bank holidays
  
• English as a second language
  
• Cost of job hunting – can you afford broadband etc.?
  

This is not an exhaustive list and all decisions made by DWP staff as well as its private contractors. Have to be reasonable, rational and proportionate. As well as appropriate for the individual concerned.

Therefore It is vital that you inform the Jobcentre staff of all your circumstances. This will help you to agree a reasonable agreement.

Remember

A Jobseeker’s Agreement is not a contract. It is merely a suggested plan of job search activities to help you meet the conditions of claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance.

Just try to negotiate what is best for you. But never agree to anything you feel is unreasonable such as applying for X number of jobs per week. You do not have control over the Jobs market and cannot possibly predict the future.

You cannot be legally sanctioned for not carrying out any or all the steps in the claimant commitment.

https://killwelfaresanctionskill.org/2018/03/06/jsa-claimant-commitment-getting-it-right-for-you/

Hi, many thanks for your detailed reply. I was thinking more specifically negotiating to not include find-a-job in my CC when it is next reviewed.

Well not entirely sure how they will progress on that, at the moment if you can show your are signed up with another site like find a job and uploaded your CV then there is no compelling reason why you should also sign up with find a job, it only aggregates jobs that have been posted elsewhere.

There is a change afoot and not entirely sure which direction it will go, they are ambiguous at the best of times in freedom of information responses.

I am only assuming that we can still refuse to accept find a jobs terms of service and the DWP cannot force us to do that by mandating us, the law is the law after all and afaik the law hasn't changed.

Hi, I’m new here.

I registered with Find a Job a few days ago.

A few people on other forums have said that you are not required to give your work coach access to the site. I don’t know if this is true or not—there is a lot of confusion surrounding it all. But if they are right, and you don’t have to give your work coach access, won’t that look suspicious to them, as if you have something to hide? This will be even more suspicious if, like me, you have already allowed them access to UJM. They will wonder why you gave them access to one but not the other?

Also, if you are not required to give your work coach access, then why even register with the site at all? What would be the point in doing so if your work coach can’t have access to it to check if you are really using it to look for jobs? In other words, is it ok to refuse to register with the site, and just say that you will use other job sites instead, like Indeed, Reed, CV Library etc?

Most benefit claimants will have little or no experience of negotiating, so you are certainly not alone.

Most Claimant Commitments or Jobseekers Agreements are surprisingly similar, especially the activities that work coaches have ‘persuaded’ you to include about anything to do with UJM. So much for their being individually drawn up to help you specifically.

I think that when it comes to up-dating your agreement similar wording will be used but with FaJ replacing UJM.

So, the first thing to do, if you feel comfortable doing it, is write down the activities that include anything to do with UJM in your current agreement. You could also write down any other activity that you feel uncomfortable with. It is unlikely that anyone reading what you write is going to recognise you from this since, as already mentioned, there will be thousands very similar. Work coaches are directed and trained from one central source so that whatever they do or ‘advise’ from one end of the country to the other will be much the same. Thinking for themselves is discouraged and frowned upon.

You can then use Trebor’s detailed tips and the information in the document on the link he’s provided to make up your own list of activities for inclusion in a re-negotiated agreement. Hadn’t seen that particular document before, better than most I’ve seen on the topic, thanks for the link.

You might also wish to check out the rules and regulations that you need to be comfortable with if you decide to sign up for FaJ. You can read or download them from their own website:

https://findajob.dwp.gov.uk/acceptable-use.html

If you find it difficult to come up with an alternative list of activities that you would feel comfortable with I’m sure help would be forthcoming.

PS: The laws you refer to Trebor have not changed, apart from the data protection and privacy laws which, as of 25th May, will make it doubly harder for DWP to require that you allow your personal data to be shared without your consent.

That is why it is vital that nothing be included in your CC or JSAg suggesting that your permission has been obtained to share your personal data. This could enable them to mandate you to use Faj, and give them access to your account, or sanction you if you refuse. Just as they did with UJM.

it is said DWP staff do not access to find a job service but I am reckon that they will find a way somehow by doing something like threatening to stop a jobseekers job to see if you are regularly using the service to look for work.

After a few days of having an account with Find a job, I decided to delete my account, but the main question is, is it mandatory to have an account? I deleted it because it was rubbish, no jobs where I am and all the jobs are very too far to travel.

After a few days of having an account with Find a job, I decided to delete my account, but the main question is, is it mandatory to have an account? I deleted it because it was rubbish, no jobs where I am and all the jobs are very too far to travel.

Unless you have received a Job Seekers Direction mandating that you create an account, there is no requirement to do so. Even if you had received a JSD, there is plenty of scope to challenge it, especially if you are already registered with other job search sites.

I have noticed on find a job service and there as been no new jobs advertised on the website since 17 may 2018 and the old universal job match website (shutdown date 18 june 2018) has no new coming either are employers giving up and decided to stop using government job wesbsites and use non government website they trust instead.