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Ramsbottom Bang and Olufsen – not honouring cooling off period**Refund in Full***


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Frankly I'm shocked at the attitude of Bang and Olufsen. Firstly I'm shocked at their attitude to this particular customer. I'm also shocked at the attitude they have towards the statutory rights that this customer is entitled to. I'm also shocked at this document which purports to be the Bang and Olufsen terms of trade which is hugely flawed and in many cases completely unenforceable. I wonder if this is a document which is only used by the Ramsbottom branch of Bang and Olufsen or this is a document which is generally supplied by Bang and Olufsen to all the franchises.

 

When Bang and Olufsen authorises somebody to start up a retail business to act as an outlet for their premises, they also license the use of the trademark. It is completely axiomatic of any trademark licensing agreement that the quality of the use of the trademark will be monitored and maintained and that everything will be done for the reputation of the trademark owner to be maintained to the highest quality.

 

The treatment of this elderly customer by the Ramsbottom branch of Bang and Olufsen brings no credit to anyone either Ramsbottom or at Bang and Olufsen generally. In a way I think that it actually damages the reputation of all the other franchises in the country and elsewhere who would do things completely differently to here.

 

The refusal of the head office in Denmark to intervene – even though they have the right to do so because it will be part of their trademark licensing agreement – seems to be also an extraordinary decision and frankly it's not what we expect of these northern jurisdictions. This is more the approach that I would expect in Latin countries towards the south of Europe.

 

Finally the shockingly one-sided and unfair terms contained in the document below speak to me of the company which thinks that it can do business simply on the quality of the equipment and without regard to the quality of their customer service.

 

This document will be sent to Trading Standards and it is clearly an example of an unfair commercial practice. I suppose Bang and Olufsen can only be grateful that by and large Trading Standards don't seem to take much notice of individual complaints.

 

Terms. of Trade

Bang & Olufsen Ramsbottom (K & P Lancashire ltd)

All retail transactions will be subject to the following conditions:

 

 

1. Because of the individual order basis of most Bang & Olufsen products a deposit is payable by the customer on all orders at the lime of ordering. The amount of the deposit is a minimum of 10% of the Purchase Price on all standard Bang & Olufsen pcoducts and 100% on all parts and special order products/colours, Any order cancelled by the customer prior Io the product leaving the factory for dispatch to the slore will be subject to an administration charge equal to 5% of total order. Any order cancelled by the customer alter the product has left the factory for dispatch to the store will be subject to an administration charge equal Io 10% of total order. These administration charges are unenforceable in the case of off-premises contracts

 

2. The balance of lhe purchase price is payable no later than day of delivery of the goods to the

customer and sufficient time should be allowed for ail payments to clear. We cannot deliver

goods and all goods remain the property of Bang & Olufsen (K & P Lancashire Ltd) until paid in full.

 

3. If the outstanding balance is not received by the due date, Bang & Olufsen reserve the right to cancel the sale and any deposit paid by the customer may be forfeit. The retention of any deposit in the circumstances would have to be fair and would have to reflect any losses incurred

 

4. For goods purchased under the above conditions, Bang & Olufsen may consider storing the

products on the customer's behalf for a maximum of one month after the advised delivery date. Full payment will be required prior Io the commencement of the storage and the storage will be at the customer's own risk.

 

5. Quotes provided by Bang & Olufsen are valid for 30 days from the date of issue, unless otherwise agreed in writing.

 

6. For information on individual product warranties please refer to the 'Information Guarantee'

document contained within the product packaging. For non Bang & Olufsen products, warranty is strictly on the basis of that manufacturers warranty and not Bang & Olufsen warranty terms. The customer is responsible to warranty register non Bang & Olufsen equipment. No mention here of a customer statutory rights against the retailer which exist even in respect of non-Bang and Olufsen equipment

 

7. Extended warranties are available for Bang & Olufsen products. Extension from 3 years to 6 years is available at an additional cost. We strongly recommend you consider this option. Please advise us of your decision when signing below.

 

8. Bang & Olufsen will not accept the return of any product alter it has been delivered to the customer other than in exceptional circumstances and at the absolute discretion of Bang & Olufsen. Any order cancelled in this way will be subject to an administration charge equal to 15% of total order. this ignores a customer's rights in respect of off premises contracts and as such is unenforceable

 

9. The cost of the installation charge includes one free visit after the installation to go through any questions or operational issues. Any further visits required will be charged at a reduced call out charge of £50 (normally £95). at the discretion of the Technician.

 

 

Signed by Client ......... Signed for Bang & 0lufsen R Chew

Client name ............ ° Bang & Olufsen staff name ....R Chew,

Date ..............

 

Any reasonable and confident company would include a statement reminding the customer that none of the terms and conditions are intended to detract from or affect in any way that customers statutory rights under UK consumer law.

 

In this set of terms and conditions, that warning is missing. Of course there is no statutory obligation to include such a warning – but the fact that it is missing here is unhelpful and maybe it says something about the general attitude

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The next question really is what does the user: Embassy want to do about it? If a small claim in the County Court were to be brought on the basis of these facts then I would expect that the chances of success are much better than 95%. I would expect that once the papers were issued that Ramsbottom would probably put their hands up rather than face the embarrassment of the judgement against them and that then finding its way onto social media and also to Denmark – who might finally then be prepared to get up and take notice.

 

Of course the problem is that the contract appears to be in the name of an elderly lady. She probably wouldn't have to say anything in court if she had user: Embassy by her side – (in the unlikely event that it went for a hearing). It has been said elsewhere in the thread that it is possible for some kind of power of attorney to permit 1/3 party to take the case – but I'm really not so sure if that is possible. I can imagine that it is at this point in time that user: Embassy rather wishes that he hadn't gotten involved in the first place. I completely agree. There are limits to being a good neighbour – but at the same time it must be hugely frustrating if he ends up having to let this go. I think he's done very well to support his neighbour this far. I don't think many people would take so much time and trouble.

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Hi after hearing nothing back from the shop I was hoping that maybe an email from Bang & Olufsen may have had some kind of action but it looks like nothing.

I will go over and speak to my neighbour regarding this and I very much doubt he will want to take it further . If the elderly lady wished to take it further then I would definitely go to court with her but I suspect as has already been mentioned she wouldn't want to face it, it is a shame really I may have one last phone call and mention small claims court but I suspect they would call my bluff and the less contact I have with them the better for me.

If I were to lodge a claim in court would the company be liable for costs incurred if it actually went to a hearing? I don't want to file the necessary paperwork and then they just turn around and start taking notice

 

 

many thanks in advance and huge thanks for the information you have all provided so far.

 

 

Andy

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Yes, if they lost the action – as they most undoubtedly will, then they would have to do recompense all costs and also reasonable costs of travel. I may have said already that I doubt whether it would get to court because somebody would wake up and see sense.

 

I'm quite certain that if the elderly lady was present in court, then you would be allowed to speak on her behalf. You would have to explain the situation to the judge and I can't imagine that the judge would be so heartless as to refuse you permission.

 

If Ramsbottom Bang and Olufsen really wanted to go to court and sit opposite a very elderly lady and try to deny her her consumer rights, then I think the local paper would be very interested as well.

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Morning,

i did speak to my neighbour last night and his wife said she would not be happy attending court if it went that far, i tried to explain that it is unlikely it would get that far but she is unwilling, i did say i would try one final call to the shop and see if they would consider changing their mind and informing them i would be seeking legal advice but as i am unaware of what to say really i wonder whether anyone could help me with the right wording and what to say to them.

 

Can anyone help , the elderly man said he would go to court but i told him that wouldn't be a possibility really considering his mobility

 

any help as always is appreciated

 

Andy

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I'm afraid that I can't think of any helpful suggestions to make. If there was a court claim any window hearing and the hearing would be at their local court – wherever that is. That of course I can understand perfectly that elderly people like this are very anxious not to have their lives disrupted in this way. Ramsbottom Bang and Olufsen are benefiting from this – even if they have deliberately set out to take advantage of an elderly couple, in effect that is what is happening.

 

I really don't know if there is a way that you can take over the case and appear in court without them there. I don't think it is possible.

 

As for contacting the shop, I suppose you have nothing to lose – except loss of face. The problem is that it seems that you are dealing with a bunch of people who have now put their heels in and that they have no idea how to back down and amazingly you are dealing with a parent company/trademark owner that doesn't seem to be bothered – and I'm really amazed that. I would have thought that Bang and Olufsen would have wanted their reputation for excellence in the sound systems they sell to have a read-over to their reputation for customer service.

 

By all means speak to them but I think that rather than trying to reach out on the legalities, the only thing maybe to touch them is to talk about the moralities involved in taking advantage of the vulnerability of an elderly couple.

 

Other than that I would certainly set about going to all of the review websites and making sure that everybody knew the kind of treatment that Ramsbottom Bang and Olufsen will hand out to them if they buy something from their homes, change their minds, and are too elderly to stand up for themselves.

 

Frankly I think that if you have the time then a letter to a member of Parliament would be a possible direction to go – particularly if you copied Ramsbottom Bang and Olufsen into the letter. I'm going to see if I can get hold of the local newspaper – although it may well be that they're not interested in such a comparatively small story.

 

Apart from that, I'm really not too sure what to suggest. It is extremely frustrating

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I've sent an email to a friend/contact in the consumer rights business who might be able to provide some help. But let's not get our hopes too high!

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Thank you i still plan to ring them although this may happen this afternoon now the whole situation leaves a really bad taste in the mouth if i get anything back from the phone call i will update this and will try to phone the Bolton Evening News and see if they are willing to do a story

 

thanks again

 

Andy

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It is possible to issue a claim without the need of your neighbours attending court...you issue all the relevant paperwork through MCOL under their name.

 

Then simply rely on CPR 27.9

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27#27.9

 

Regards

 

Andy

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It is possible to issue a claim without the need of your neighbours attending court...you issue all the relevant paperwork through MCOL under their name.

 

Then simply rely on CPR 27.9

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27#27.9

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Brilliant. Let's do it.

 

I sent you an email the other day to your other email address. Please would you contact me with some contact details – or else using our admin email address. Thanks

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Here is the letter i intend to send please can anyone look over this and advise me of any errors or omissions this is template from an online source

 

"Mr Paul Braithwaite

Bang & Olufsen of Ramsbottom

8 Square Street

Ramsbottom

BL0 9BE

 

Dear Sir,

Reference: Refusal of refund request during cooling off period

 

As it has not been possible to resolve this matter amicably it is apparent that court action may be necessary, I write in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

We ordered as follows

1. Beovision Horizon-40 Black

2. Beovision Horizon Easel Stand black

3. Beoremote One BT Silver

We paid a deposit of £320 by cheque with the balance to be paid on delivery by cheque.

I have emailed you stating that I wish to return the Television as I am not happy with it under my statutory 14 day cooling off period on the 11th April 2018 and asked you contact me within 14 days to arrange collection and have received no contact from you

From you I am claiming a full refund for the cost of the Television and Easel Stand

I have calculated this sum to be £2,930 plus costs

Listed below are the documents on which I intend to rely on in my claim against you:

I will be using the receipt of sale and terms of trade documents supplied by your company

I can confirm that I would be agreeable to mediation and would consider any other system of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) in order to avoid the need for this matter to be resolved by the courts.

I would invite you to put forward any proposals in this regard.

In closing, I would draw your attention to paragraphs 15 and 16 of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim.

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 28 days.

Should I not receive a response to my letter within this time frame then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.

Yours faithfully, "

 

If all ok i will get this signed tonight and post recorded tomorrow

 

thanks

 

Andy

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It's okay except that I'm confused about the amount of money are claiming. Are you claiming £3200? Or 2930?

 

I think I might do it slightly differently.

As you know, on the XXX date I entered into and off-premises contract with you for an XXX television system for £XXX and which was delivered on XXX date.

 

Despite the fact that I am entitled to a statutory 14 day cooling off period, when I informed you within two days of delivery that I was rejecting the goods as they were not appropriate to my need, you refused to accept them and to give me a refund.

 

You have maintained this position despite messages from me and also from your head office in Denmark.

 

If I do not receive a full refund from you within 14 days then I shall begin an action in the County Court to recover my money and associated claim fees without any further notice.

 

Your proposed letter is fine but rather involved for my taste. Choose yours, or mine, or use what you want from both.

 

Make sure the figures are right and make sure that you do point out the total that you are claiming. Do refer to the fact that it is an off-premises contract

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The reason why i claimed less was because there was no price mentioned for the Blu Ray player it was classed as included according to the receipt and there was an £150 charge for installation which i thought would be due as they did actually install iLooking at the bill i tottalled up the listed item the TV the Stand and the Remote

I am happy to take your letter and whilst i was writing i did think maybe im including too much i will re write it and post before i send it

 

Andy

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Claim for the lot. It's all one contract. Let them argue the toss for the small change if it helps them to save face

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Incidentally, what exactly was "installation"?

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Installation was the removal of the existing stand (it was on wheels) which i believe was done way from the house and attaching the easel stand and then bring the TV into the house installing the blu ray player and setting up freeview

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Installation was the removal of the existing stand (it was on wheels) which i believe was done way from the house and attaching the easel stand and then bring the TV into the house installing the blu ray player and setting up freeview

 

in other words, money for old rope and just another way to make a few more quid from an elderly couple.

 

Claim for the lot and let them challenge the bits and pieces if it makes them feel better.

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One last question looking at the receipt it shows 23rd March is that the contract start date or is the date it was delivered the contract start date? Also i did not inform them until the 11th April when i emailed them

Edited by Embassy
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The cooling off date begins on the date that the goods were delivered – and if they had to be installed then I'm quite sure that it would be the date they were eventually installed, whichever was the later.

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New Letter i will print this off and get it sent tomorrow

 

"Mr Paul Braithwaite

Bang & Olufsen of Ramsbottom

8 Square Street

Ramsbottom

BL0 9BE

 

As you know, on the 23rd March 2018 I entered into an off-premises contract with you for a Beovision Horizon television system for a total of £3,200 this included an Easel Stand and a Beovision Remote control and a Samsung Blu Ray player which was delivered on 5th April 2018.

 

Despite the fact that I am entitled to a statutory 14 day cooling off period, when I informed you within six days of delivery that I was rejecting the goods as they were not appropriate to my need, you refused to accept them and to give me a refund.

 

You have maintained this position despite messages from me and also from your head office in Denmark.

 

If I do not receive a full refund from you within 14 days then I shall begin an action in the county court to recover my money and associated claim fees without any further notice.

 

Yours Faithfully,"

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I don't know about you, but it scares the hell out of me!

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I've had a press contact. Please will you contact me.

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