Having had no further response from RS I am now looking to progress this. Reading the online advice from MCOL there is a reference to resolving the issue by arbitration in the pre action conduct. Is it for me to suggest this or for them to propose it as an alternative to court

This is an interesting idea for a high value item such as this. Was it just advice or did they intervene? How much does this service cost?

Having had no further response from RS I am now looking to progress this. Reading the online advice from MCOL there is a reference to resolving the issue by arbitration in the pre action conduct. Is it for me to suggest this or for them to propose it as an alternative to court

I wouldn't normally recommend mediation – but because this is a high value item, then maybe this is a good move. However you should read up about mediation and how generally speaking people are not trained to get the best out of this kind of alternative system. All too often, the dominant party uses it as a way of depriving the other side of some of their rights. There is no reason why you should sacrifice anything here.

If you wanted to try mediation then you would have to issue the court papers first. He would then be given an opportunity to say that you would be prepared to enter into mediation. If the other side agree to do this as well then they would be a telephone mediation process.

It is only capable of working if the other side is really interested in seeking some solution rather than merely standing their ground. From what we understand so far, RS motorhomes are simply obstinate.

The service cost me £92 and included a year's subscription to the magazine and was well worth the outlay as I got the correct and expert advice. One thing I never knew is that by ignoring the CRA 2015 they are committing a criminal act and I used this to its best advantage. BTW we were silly enough to pay a solicitor £540, but when I realised I knew more about CRA 2015 than them, I dumped them very quickly. I agree on a high value item, mediation is just another delaying tactic.

Either way using CRA 2015 there should be no necessity to go to court if the OP has all the evidence in writing and photographic proof to coincide with dates complaints raised. The dealer will not stand a chance in any court of law and they know it. However in the meantime they are hoping the OP will give up and accept the crap that has been foisted on the OP. The OP needs to fight them every inch of the way using the correct and relevant legal advice.

I still have all the arguments on word documents based on advice from WSL that I put forward to the finance company, but for obvious reasons I do not wish to post them in the public domain. I am wondering if the OP has had an independent inspection done by either a AWS or MCEA technician who are both recognised bodies specialising in the caravan industry? OP does not state if the vehicle has any finance on it or whether they paid a deposit using a credit card? Has the dealer been reported to Trading Standards as they take a very dim view of this sort of thing.

As for an Ombudsman they can only be used if there was some sort of financial issue like vehicle on HP or deposit paid using credit card. The National caravan Council is about as much good as a wet paper bag.

Please could you tell us more about the criminal aspect of ignoring the CRA. I hadn't appreciated this. If it is a crime then does an individual have the right to bring some kind of action on it? How do they do that? Could you please link to the source of the information that ignoring the CRA is a crime. Could it be an unfair commercial practice?

Please could you tell us more about the criminal aspect of ignoring the CRA. I hadn't appreciated this. If it is a crime then does an individual have the right to bring some kind of action on it? How do they do that? Could you please link to the source of the information that ignoring the CRA is a crime. Could it be an unfair commercial practice?

It is legislation passed by Parliament therefore ignoring the legislation is a criminal offence and not a civil issue. It is Trading Standards that would raise the criminal offence and not an individual. I would think that in most cases TS would get a conviction, but as they have limited resources they normally only act if several cases have bene reported to them about a specific trader. This is the reason if I asked whether the OP had reported the issue to TS as they need to exhaust all avenues before it goes to court.

Yes, this is broadly what I imagined. The problem is that with Trading Standards, they only react if they get a number of similar complaints so that they see that there is a trend. They are pretty inaccessible to the ordinary individual. Frankly, Trading Standards have become a very difficult to deal with organisation – but anyway, a complaint certainly should be made to TS so that it is on record.

I don't know why, I had a feeling that there was some new legislation which gave certain rights to individuals to bring their own actions in respect of unfair commercial practices. I'll have a look

Please could you tell us more about the criminal aspect of ignoring the CRA. I hadn't appreciated this. If it is a crime then does an individual have the right to bring some kind of action on it? How do they do that? Could you please link to the source of the information that ignoring the CRA is a crime. Could it be an unfair commercial practice?

How do consumers enforce their rights under CRA 2015?

Ultimately via the courts as usual. Various public bodies can enforce consumer law and their powers range from criminal prosecutions to injunctions. The main ones are Trading Standards and the Consumer Markets Authority (previously the Office of Fair Trading). Enforcement orders compelling cessation of non- compliance with consumer law are obtained via the Enterprise Act 2002. This benefits consumers in general rather than compensating an individual consumer.

What roles do the courts play under the provisions of CRA 2015?

Ultimately, they enforce CRA 2015—but CRA 2015 is seeking to enable consumers to avoid this by setting out clear obligations on traders.

This is an interesting idea for a high value item such as this. Was it just advice or did they intervene? How much does this service cost?

 

 

 

I wouldn't normally recommend mediation – but because this is a high value item, then maybe this is a good move. However you should read up about mediation and how generally speaking people are not trained to get the best out of this kind of alternative system. All too often, the dominant party uses it as a way of depriving the other side of some of their rights. There is no reason why you should sacrifice anything here.

 

If you wanted to try mediation then you would have to issue the court papers first. He would then be given an opportunity to say that you would be prepared to enter into mediation. If the other side agree to do this as well then they would be a telephone mediation process.

 

It is only capable of working if the other side is really interested in seeking some solution rather than merely standing their ground. From what we understand so far, RS motorhomes are simply obstinate.

I have drafted the claim,having read the advice on the the gov web site around pre action protocols I sent them a final letter to which they have not yet responded.

I am wondering what other costs I can claim for other than the recorded delivery charge for two letters. The MCOL site suggests that interest can be charged at 8% but also states that the amount claimed should be for a fixed amount obviously interest would go up the longer this drags on, others have suggested a claim for loss of use/enjoyment what figure if any could be claimed, I recognise the fact that I can only claim for reasonable losses and would not wish to jeopardise my claim by being un reasonable

Below is a draft of the claim I would appreciate your views please

Purchase cost of a second hand Lunar Roadstar

780 Motorhome NK53JCJ rejected under CRA 2015

Alarm not functioning, wiring to alarm left

in dangerous/unsatisfactory condition, cruise

control broken, not functioning, windscreen

Washers not functioning, door lock not

Functioning, over cab bed restraint catches

Missing, wheel trims missing, lack of

adequate evidence for habitation check/damp

survey. Discrepancies in PDI paperwork along

with discrepancies in account for delay in

delivery resulting in a break down in trust

around work carried out or that may be

carried out in the future.

I have drafted the claim,having read the advice on the the gov web site around pre action protocols I sent them a final letter to which they have not yet responded.

 

I am wondering what other costs I can claim for other than the recorded delivery charge for two letters. The MCOL site suggests that interest can be charged at 8% but also states that the amount claimed should be for a fixed amount obviously interest would go up the longer this drags on, others have suggested a claim for loss of use/enjoyment what figure if any could be claimed, I recognise the fact that I can only claim for reasonable losses and would not wish to jeopardise my claim by being un reasonable

 

Below is a draft of the claim I would appreciate your views please

 

Purchase cost of a second hand Lunar Roadstar

780 Motorhome NK53JCJ rejected under CRA 2015

Alarm not functioning, wiring to alarm left

in dangerous/unsatisfactory condition, cruise

control broken, not functioning, windscreen

Washers not functioning, door lock not

Functioning, over cab bed restraint catches

Missing, wheel trims missing, lack of

adequate evidence for habitation check/damp

survey. Discrepancies in PDI paperwork along

with discrepancies in account for delay in

delivery resulting in a break down in trust

around work carried out or that may be

carried out in the future.

Where all the above observed within the first 30 days? If not did you give the dealer at least one chance to repair? What clauses within the CRA 2015 are you using for the rejection as stating you are rejecting under CRA 2015 as just stating you are rejecting under CRA 2015 may not be enough? You will need to state the appropriate clauses under CRA 2015 for the rejection and again the clauses relating to a refund otherwise they will just walk over you.

I haven't had an opportunity to go through the whole thread again and refresh my memory. However, the list you have set out is not a claim. It doesn't set out the cause of action. It is simply a recap of all your heads of damage.

You need to set out the claim – breach of contract et cetera.

When did the deadline expire in your letter before claim? Your draft claim should have already been prepared so that you are ready to hit the button the moment it expired. Any delay after that and you lose credibility.

I have three days before it expires

The format for claiming is quite restricted do I need to explain all the points as well as outline the breach of contract as that would be difficult to do in the space available but I will apply myself to that

Where all the above observed within the first 30 days? If not did you give the dealer at least one chance to repair? What clauses within the CRA 2015 are you using for the rejection as stating you are rejecting under CRA 2015 as just stating you are rejecting under CRA 2015 may not be enough? You will need to state the appropriate clauses under CRA 2015 for the rejection and again the clauses relating to a refund otherwise they will just walk over you.

All the above were noted within the 30 day limit and letters sent rejecting etc

The format for complaining allows you to state your basic case and what your basic head of claim is. If you then want to go into further detail there is a checkbox which allows you to indicate that you will supply a fuller Particulars of Claim after the papers are issued. I think that might be seven days.

the claimant bought a motorhome from the defendant motorhome dealer for £XXX On XXX date.

Within XY days, the motorhome had developed all started to display various defects.

The claimant contacted the defendant dealer and informed him that he was asserting his right to reject under the Consumer Rights Act and that he wished is money to be refunded.

The defendant has refused to honour his statutory obligations.

The claimant claims £XXX – the price of the motorhome

£yyy expenses incurred presidential address and then returning it to the dealer

the claimant has also incurred XXX expenses in respect of counsel preparations for a holiday using the motorhome

 

 

 

I haven't looked through the whole thread again. The draft I have proposed above is something that I've made up on the fly. Maybe you can have a look at it, amend it as necessary and post it again. Please put in the figures. Can you tell us more about the loss of enjoyment and any other losses please. Once again, this should have been prepared already.

The format for complaining allows you to state your basic case and what your basic head of claim is. If you then want to go into further detail there is a checkbox which allows you to indicate that you will supply a fuller Particulars of Claim after the papers are issued. I think that might be seven days.

I looked at that but thought it was supplied to the defendant not the court so that’s why I put the points in there. I will revamp it to include the breach of contract with a generalised break down of the faults, and then submit more details in the extra section

I haven't looked through the whole thread again. The draft I have proposed above is something that I've made up on the fly. Maybe you can have a look at it, amend it as necessary and post it again. Please put in the figures. Can you tell us more about the loss of enjoyment and any other losses please. Once again, this should have been prepared already.

Thanks for that I will amend/adapt to suit. As far as loss of enjoyment is concerned I have not had to cancel anything as nothing was booked because the beauty of a motorhome is the spontaneity of going away which we have not been able to do as perceived wisdom is to not use the vehicle whilst in dispute that’s why I am looking for guidance on what might be reasonable. My restdays from work are in blocks of five with 4 days working in between and I would normally have looked to go away at least three times since the motorhome was delivered but my point is that I haven’t had anything booked so I have no tangible cost to recover.

Okay. Please can you draft out what you can and when we say and the value of it, then we'll see if there is anything we can add for loss of enjoyment. However, it may be that a figure follows of enjoyment should only be maybe £500 or so.

Judges don't like this kind of thing and it's best to be extremely modest about it to stand any kind of chance. However, if there is some kind of mediation then maybe a figure for loss enjoyment is something which you can give up in return for a quicker and more reasonable settlement.

I have suggested that mediation might be appropriate here because of the high value – but at the end of the day when I think of the possible mediation outcomes, they are likely to be:

an offer to carry out all repairs

an offer of a price reduction to be paid over to you in cash

a mixture of these

a full refund plus your court fee but no settlement of additional losses

an agreement to pay the full value of your claim so that the matter is ended there and then without the incurring of any further costs

I can't really see much else available.

If you did accept an offer of repairs then I think that the agreement would have to include an inspection of the vehicle by an independent inspector – to be chosen by you – after the repairs have been completed, with an undertaking by the defendant that they would abide by the result. There would have to be very clear undertaking as to the time limit set for the completion of the repairs and also the cost of getting the vehicle there and back.

I tend to agree your thoughts re mediation and for me the ideal outcome would be that they collect the vehicle and refund what I am outstanding as due to their falsehoods around the reasons for late delivery I feel that the work carried out and any future work carried out would entail trust issues.

The other issue is that for them to agree any form of mediation they need to make contact to discuss it and as they have failed to respond to emails and letters I suggest they will not respond until the correspondence comes via the court and by then I will have incurred another £1200 pounds.

I have not suggested any form of mediation to them in correspondence to date.

The time for formerly indicating that you would be amenable to a mediation solution is a long way off.

If you feel that there is a trust issue which would get in the way of an offer of repairs, then this is extremely valid.

Some people seem to think that refusing mediation would be looked upon critically by a judge. Not true

I haven't looked through the whole thread again. The draft I have proposed above is something that I've made up on the fly. Maybe you can have a look at it, amend it as necessary and post it again. Please put in the figures. Can you tell us more about the loss of enjoyment and any other losses please. Once again, this should have been prepared already.

I have revamped this your views please I have left off the damages for lack of enjoyment and I have incurred no costs so far for storage, with regard to returning the vehicle I am not happy to drive it in it’s current condition so my assumption is that the dealer needs to collect

The claimant bought a motorhome from the

defendant motorhome dealer on 23rd March 2018

for £23500. On the day of delivery and over

the following few days various defects were

noted and the dealer advised. The claimant contacted the defendant

by email 11th April 2018 followed By

registered Post outlining the faults and

informing the defendant that he was asserting

his right to reject under the Consumer Rights

Act 2015 as the goods were not of

satisfactory quality or fit for purpose and

that he wished to have his money refunded.

The defendant has refused to honour his

statutory obligations and has made no contact

with the claimant since 11th April 18

The claimant claims £23500 the purchase

price.

Don't forget interest and court/claim costs.

They'd be claiming them if the boot was on the other foot

The court costs seem to be added by the system as you progress through so will be included. The system also adds in the interest at 8% per annum charged daily on a pro rata basis as lin as I tick a box at the start of the form. So I think I’m good to go

Have ticked that you will send full details later?

Did they explain your cancellation rights in any terms and conditions?

This is important to know

Yes have ticked that will send full details later as cannot tel full story in space available. Will check over terms and conditions but from memory nothing was stated and the small print on back of agreement form makes reference to the sales of goods act 1979 which was replaced by the cra as I understand it so I am assuming that the conditions of that would not actually be valid, Your views would be most welcome

The court costs seem to be added by the system as you progress through so will be included. The system also adds in the interest at 8% per annum charged daily on a pro rata basis as lin as I tick a box at the start of the form. So I think I’m good to go

It does but be aware it reduces the amount of space left in the main particulars box by six lines. This is because a statement is automatically added explaining you are claiming interest under the County Court Act.

Same goes for serving additional particulars this will reduce the amount of space left in the main particulars box by three lines. This is because a statement is automatically added explaining you will be serving further particulars.

The POC are restricted to 24 lines of 45 characters and a total of 1080 characters. If you type more than this the last part of your text will not appear on the claim.

Andy